Author Topic: Need opinion  (Read 366 times)

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Offline AKM-47

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Need opinion
« on: November 09, 2019, 09:26:58 PM »
I'm looking at buying a pistol in 300blk (AR) or 7.62x39 (AK) for home defense/CQC

The question is which round has better stopping power without going through the walls 300 or 7.62x39






Offline TXAZ

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2019, 10:36:09 PM »
Unless its a ballistic / concrete wall, they are both going thru most walls.
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Offline Geoman

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2019, 11:00:38 PM »
Get a shotgun with a light.
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2019, 11:07:42 PM »
All of the deputies in my sons department have a 300 AAC Blackout PSA AR type pistol mounted in a rack above the windshield. All are fitted with the Sig Romeo red dot. They now keep their 5.56 AR's and shotguns in the trunk.
From what I understand the .300 AAC was developed to come close to the ballistic performance of the 7.62 x 39 but by using a shorter barrel than an AK or SKS. The .300 Black Out round also accommodates a larger grain bullet than the standard AR 15 round. The 5.56 and 7.62 x 39 are said to be more accurate at distances of over 200 yards but for distances less than that or for close quarters engagement the AR pistol in 300 Back Out seems to be the go to platform.

My sons PSA .300 AAC







 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 12:27:16 AM by Alte Schule »
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2019, 12:40:16 AM »
Unless its a ballistic / concrete wall, they are both going thru most walls.
This so true. Part of the .300 AAC appeal was the short range ability to engage barricaded suspects, penetrate
vehicle metal and some ballistic armor.
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Offline DCD327

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 04:42:51 PM »
As others pointed out.

Personally,  I wouldnt buy either if it's over penetration your worried about.

A  4.10 with snake shot or disk shot sounds like a better option with all the ammo now available in that caliber.  It's much slower projectiles, will still easily peneyrate a body with plenty of stopping power,  but big and fat so it stops alot faster when it hits something.
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 04:49:57 PM »
PS90 would be better - 5.7x28mm was designed to not over penetrate hard targets

Offline Lrdplatypus

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2019, 02:31:08 PM »
As others pointed out.

Personally,  I wouldnt buy either if it's over penetration your worried about.

A  4.10 with snake shot or disk shot sounds like a better option with all the ammo now available in that caliber.  It's much slower projectiles, will still easily peneyrate a body with plenty of stopping power,  but big and fat so it stops alot faster when it hits something.

Snake shot will not penetrate more than a few inches of ballistic gel. It's a terrible round for self defense. This advise is a good way to get someone killed.
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Offline Lrdplatypus

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 02:34:52 PM »
PS90 would be better - 5.7x28mm was designed to not over penetrate hard targets

I like my PS90 but think 5.56 is the better home defense round. It's light and fast so it'll stop faster than heavier rounds, but it still has a lot of energy to impart on the target.

Just about any round capable of reaching a humans vitals is also capable of going through drywall. Worry less about shooting through drywall and worry more about hitting your target quickly and effectively.
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 05:54:56 PM »
Come to think about this discussion the best gun I have for home defense that wont penetrate any walls is Boomer shooting blanks: 
Anyone In the point cone of the muzzle is going to get 3rd degree burns and immediately loose hearing and eyesight. 
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2019, 06:06:02 PM »
PS90 would be better - 5.7x28mm was designed to not over penetrate hard targets

I like my PS90 but think 5.56 is the better home defense round. It's light and fast so it'll stop faster than heavier rounds, but it still has a lot of energy to impart on the target.

Just about any round capable of reaching a humans vitals is also capable of going through drywall. Worry less about shooting through drywall and worry more about hitting your target quickly and effectively.

I had to sell it because of medical bills - but I had previously bought my PS90 for home defense, because I live in a condo. Wall penetration and entering the unit of a neighbor was a huge concern for me... The original poster specifically asked about wall penetration...
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The round was designed to not over penetrate hard surfaces. I have seen some youtube tests where the round does go thru 1 interior wall, but the 2nd interior wall WILL stop the 198 round. Just barely, but it will.

Most other rounds will go thru many walls. Even the Armor piercing 5.7x28mm 190 round will not leave a cinder block - it breaks up before it makes it thru all layers of the cinder block. FN used to show vids of some of the rounds features. I used to run the FN Forum, and I remember seeing some of those videos.

I like that there is zero flash in the dark with the PS90. And, it is also quieter than shooting off 5.56 indoors. Plus, it is literally like shooting a 22 when it comes to recoil.

Years ago, when I zeroed a laser - I put the gun on sandbags and fired it. All I did was pull the trigger - I did not touch the gun otherwise. The gun will stay on the bags.

I'd personally prefer the PS90 with the 50 round mag. It's as short as a SBR AR15,

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2019, 06:07:34 PM »
Come to think about this discussion the best gun I have for home defense that wont penetrate any walls is Boomer shooting blanks: 
Anyone In the point cone of the muzzle is going to get 3rd degree burns and immediately loose hearing and eyesight.

That is downright funny TXAZ! You need to come by and clean up the Mnt. Dew I just spewed out! :th_thicon_lol:

But, since most of us don't have a Boomer, a decent 12ga. pump, loaded with buckshot is a viable alternative.
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2019, 06:15:02 PM »
TXAZ - I'm trying to remember. When we shot my 5.7 into that tool catalog did that round penetrate all the way through? I had a photo of that at one time but dang if I can find it now.
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2019, 06:19:04 PM »
Here you go Alte.  Yes sir the 5.7  made the largest exit wound, the big white circle, but that's expected for a small high speed round that expands and tumbles inside the book.  The .50 went straight undeformed through if I remember correctly and buried in the dirt.

Entry wounds (The 5.7 are the smallest holes vs. 9mm & .50):



Exit wounds (the 5.7 was the largest exit wound, the big white circle, the .50 and 9mm were similar):
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2019, 06:30:38 PM »
I used my old I phone to take the photo. I'm downloaded all the photos on that phone to my lap top but can't find it now. I'll keep looking.
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2019, 06:37:50 PM »
It depends what it hits, and which 5.7 round. 2 walls have 4 sheets of drywall and wood inside. I have seen the vids.

Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 07:37:31 PM »
Here I am digging around looking for those photos and come back to see them posted. Thanks.

Ship: I don't doubt you. We were shooting the at one time restricted to law enforcement only SS 190 round. Hard to get those now. Shoot mostly the 195 HP now. Have been looking for those sub sonic rounds for a couple months now. I think I can talk Champion into letting me shoot those at their indoor range.
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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 09:15:25 PM »
Here I am digging around looking for those photos and come back to see them posted. Thanks.

Ship: I don't doubt you. We were shooting the at one time restricted to law enforcement only SS 190 round. Hard to get those now. Shoot mostly the 195 HP now. Have been looking for those sub sonic rounds for a couple months now. I think I can talk Champion into letting me shoot those at their indoor range.

Champion used to let you shoot 5.7 for years - then, they changed because they claimed that their new insurance carrier would not allow it.

I used to shoot it in there for years

Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2019, 09:36:31 PM »
I would imagine with the two suicides they have had there, in what, the last five years I would guess their premiums are pretty high. Their range their rules just glad I got a place I can shoot that has reasonable rates. I take advantage of their special week day rates. Usually shoot an hour and a half for$7-$8.
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Offline DCD327

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Re: Need opinion
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2019, 10:40:32 PM »
As others pointed out.

Personally,  I wouldnt buy either if it's over penetration your worried about.

A  4.10 with snake shot or disk shot sounds like a better option with all the ammo now available in that caliber.  It's much slower projectiles, will still easily peneyrate a body with plenty of stopping power,  but big and fat so it stops alot faster when it hits something.

Snake shot will not penetrate more than a few inches of ballistic gel. It's a terrible round for self defense. This advise is a good way to get someone killed.

How bout you go let someone shoot you with a 4.10, with what ?   5  (depending on shell length )- . 40 caliber soft lead balls at point blank range. Cause that is what were talking about here.  .inside a house, which would be point blank.

Or even #6 birdshot.

And let us know how that  works out for ya.   :thumbsup1: :th_nuts:

Apparently some people have zero understanding about what types of ammo do what kind of damage at point blank when they hit flesh. .
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".