Author Topic: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.  (Read 688 times)

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Offline Axxe55

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/america-is-under-attack-dem-candidates-call-for-gun-control-after-shootings/ar-AAFjsKN?ocid=spartandhp

Guns aren't the problem. I would like any of these Democrats to point out ANY law, that if it were in effect that they rally behind and for, that would have prevented either of these mass shootings. I'll wager any amount of money that they can't.
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Offline Axxe55

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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2019, 08:47:17 PM »
While both mass shootings are heinous, and tragic, the fact is, people wanting or crying our for more gun control laws, would not have prevented either of these two events from happening. Gun control, is about controlling people, not preventing or deterring crime, or violent mass killings. I understand whee the emotion is coming from. These killing are heartless and senseless, and people want to feel safe and protected from such forms of violence. Reality and emotions are worlds apart.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/celebrity/neil-degrasse-tyson-slammed-for-tweet-about-el-paso-dayton-shootings/ar-AAFkqaU?ocid=spartandhp

I have to agree with Tyson's assessment of the shootings. Facts are facts, and emotion isn't data.
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2019, 11:09:34 AM »
Now white supremacy is being blamed for these shootings. So are these hate crimes, or terrorism, or just some nut with a gun gone off the deep end?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/from-el-paso-to-christchurch-a-racist-lie-is-fueling-terrorist-attacks/ar-AAFlOP3?ocid=spartandhp

And they are trying to lay that blame on Trump, the conservative politicians, and even the few conservative journalists or commentators in the media, as giving rise to white supremacy. Hmmmm......

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senior-republicans-speak-out-against-white-supremacy-after-el-paso-massacre/ar-AAFmPio?ocid=spartandhp
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Offline randyjaco

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Offline Axxe55

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Misguided Miscreant!
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2019, 12:51:11 PM »
Looks like Trump isn't going to go after "assault rifles", but may try to strengthen background checks.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/heading-to-el-paso-trump-nixes-assault-weapons-ban/ar-AAFtmWp?ocid=spartandhp
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2019, 05:47:24 PM »
Here is the practical reality:  Trump has to DO something on this one, not just act like he's doing something, or wanting to do something.  If he doesn't support it, it's probably a key loss of many centrist votes.

I don't have a problem with instant background checks, heck, like Tango and working for Uncle Sam for decades doing 'stuff' they already know just about everything about me. (almost ;)  )
And if you look at many of the shooters in these incidents, there were a lot of signs from online postings to mental health issues, etc.

Onthe other hand, I understand that deaths do to medical errors occur about 10 times more every day than mass shootings.

We'll see what happens, but if Trump doesn't support something, the next president could be someone who issues executive orders that effectively (tries to) take guns from all but current law enforcement.
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Offline 308nato

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2019, 05:58:27 PM »
I don't care if he strengthens back ground checks ,just so he doesn't  sign into law any Red flag laws.  :thumbsdown:
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2019, 06:39:59 PM »
I don't care if he strengthens back ground checks ,just so he doesn't  sign into law any Red flag laws.  :thumbsdown:

The biggest problem I have with the majority of Red Flag Laws, is that in essence and reality, they bypass due process of the person they are used against. Your next door neighbor knows you have guns and is a rabid anti-gun liberal and hates your guts, he makes a call, tells the authorities you are nutso, and have guns and they are in fear of you, and guess what? They come and take your guns away, and then, you have to PROVE you are not nutso, in order to POSSIBLY get your own guns returned to you.

Without some sorts of provisions that protect the law abiding gun owner as in criminal penalties being levied against ANYONE that makes a false or untrue complaint, I could in no way support any Red Flag Laws being instated, regardless of what people are in fear of from nutcases going on killing sprees.
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2019, 06:48:45 PM »
Another area of contention, are the liberal gun-haters who keep constantly saying there are "gun show" loopholes that bypass an NCIS background check. That is untrue. ANY gun dealer, regardless of where they do business, internet, brick and mortar shop, gun show, or in their home, has to do an NCIS background check before releasing the firearm to the transferee. That is federal gun law. Internet sales still have to go through an FFL dealer regardless of where the firearm originated from, and from who.

The only exception that I'm aware of in many states, Texas included, is if the person has a valid carry permit, then they can bypass the NCIS background check.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the big deal over these last mass killings is that the firearms were purchased legally. Unless, the person is acting in some sort of deranged or unstable manner at the time of purchase, how is the FFL dealer to know if the person is going to use the guns in an illegal manner of a mass killing? Simple answer? They won't unless they have a crystal ball that tells them!
Misguided Miscreant!
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Offline cporfe

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2019, 08:48:44 PM »
I second the fear of "Red Flag" laws.  The Constitution requires "due process" but so many folks think that due process after the fact is okay.  When someone goes before a judge to get one of these confiscation writs, you better hope it's not an anti-gunner and is a "constitutionalist" judge.

As for the "loophole", what so many people tie their hat on is the personal sale between residents of the same state.  I always require a CHL when I sell a handgun.  Or first responder government credentials.  I'm counting on the government doing their part in checking these folks out.  I think you have to have a relatively clean record to be a police officer/ fire fighter/ EMT/ or Active Duty person.  I know as an AF enlisted I had to have a SECRET clearance as a minimum, which I hope still holds for GIs.

Anyway, with Trump backing a Red Flag law, it's going to happen.  I just pray it requires real due diligence on the part of the writ issuer and not just a knee-jerk reaction to a petitioner.
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Offline Shield45

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Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2019, 06:10:12 AM »
Another area of contention, are the liberal gun-haters who keep constantly saying there are "gun show" loopholes that bypass an NCIS background check. That is untrue. ANY gun dealer, regardless of where they do business, internet, brick and mortar shop, gun show, or in their home, has to do an NCIS background check before releasing the firearm to the transferee. That is federal gun law. Internet sales still have to go through an FFL dealer regardless of where the firearm originated from, and from who.

The only exception that I'm aware of in many states, Texas included, is if the person has a valid carry permit, then they can bypass the NCIS background check.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the big deal over these last mass killings is that the firearms were purchased legally. Unless, the person is acting in some sort of deranged or unstable manner at the time of purchase, how is the FFL dealer to know if the person is going to use the guns in an illegal manner of a mass killing? Simple answer? They won't unless they have a crystal ball that tells them!
The “loop hole” is when I sell one to you or vice versa at a “show” or however.
The antis want you and I to  have to perform the BGC by forcing us to go thru an FFL for any sale.

Some nanny states have proposed any time it changes hands a BGC is required. IE I want to loan you a hunting rifle gotta go to ffl and same when you return it to me.

As for RFL thats a can of worms that doesnt need opening and wont do anything.





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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2019, 08:52:40 AM »
Another area of contention, are the liberal gun-haters who keep constantly saying there are "gun show" loopholes that bypass an NCIS background check. That is untrue. ANY gun dealer, regardless of where they do business, internet, brick and mortar shop, gun show, or in their home, has to do an NCIS background check before releasing the firearm to the transferee. That is federal gun law. Internet sales still have to go through an FFL dealer regardless of where the firearm originated from, and from who.

The only exception that I'm aware of in many states, Texas included, is if the person has a valid carry permit, then they can bypass the NCIS background check.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the big deal over these last mass killings is that the firearms were purchased legally. Unless, the person is acting in some sort of deranged or unstable manner at the time of purchase, how is the FFL dealer to know if the person is going to use the guns in an illegal manner of a mass killing? Simple answer? They won't unless they have a crystal ball that tells them!
The “loop hole” is when I sell one to you or vice versa at a “show” or however.
The antis want you and I to  have to perform the BGC by forcing us to go thru an FFL for any sale.

Some nanny states have proposed any time it changes hands a BGC is required. IE I want to loan you a hunting rifle gotta go to ffl and same when you return it to me.

As for RFL thats a can of worms that doesnt need opening and wont do anything.





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In some states, ANY sales of a gun have to go through an FFL dealer, with a background check, even private sales between individuals, but Texas and many other states, private sales between two individuals is perfectly legal. Many years ago, going to gun shows, yes, I have purchased guns from individuals.

In those states, the only requirement, is that the seller has no knowledge of the buyers criminal background to prohibit selling a gun to a prohibited person. Like Chris, some years ago, just for my own protection and piece of mind, I would only sell to either people I KNEW were not prohibited, and people I didn't know, only if they possessed a valid carry permit. I also used my local gun shop and would put guns on consignment for sale or trade, and let them do all the paperwork and the background check. Yes, I paid a small fee to do it that way, but at least any gun I sold using that method, I knew that the person buying was able to legally possess a gun.

I am sure that some private sales of guns between individuals at gun shows, that there are some that are prohibited persons obtaining guns that they have no legal right to buy or possess. Just a guess and speculation, I doubt that it's huge number of restricted persons gaining gun in such a manner.

Something I have believed and still do, no laws, that have been enacted, or that will be enacted, are going to stop any criminal from getting a gun if they feel the need for one. All they end up doing is making it harder for the law abiding gun owner to obtain a gun.

I have seen this for too many years now, they enact a gun law to try and stem or deter criminal activity, and they never work. So they try or they do enact new gun laws, that further restrict gun owners, which in fact still never work. My conclusion? It has never been about gun control, or deterring criminals, it's simply about controlling the citizens of our country.
Misguided Miscreant!
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Offline Shield45

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2019, 10:11:44 AM »
Another area of contention, are the liberal gun-haters who keep constantly saying there are "gun show" loopholes that bypass an NCIS background check. That is untrue. ANY gun dealer, regardless of where they do business, internet, brick and mortar shop, gun show, or in their home, has to do an NCIS background check before releasing the firearm to the transferee. That is federal gun law. Internet sales still have to go through an FFL dealer regardless of where the firearm originated from, and from who.

The only exception that I'm aware of in many states, Texas included, is if the person has a valid carry permit, then they can bypass the NCIS background check.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the big deal over these last mass killings is that the firearms were purchased legally. Unless, the person is acting in some sort of deranged or unstable manner at the time of purchase, how is the FFL dealer to know if the person is going to use the guns in an illegal manner of a mass killing? Simple answer? They won't unless they have a crystal ball that tells them!
The “loop hole” is when I sell one to you or vice versa at a “show” or however.
The antis want you and I to  have to perform the BGC by forcing us to go thru an FFL for any sale.

Some nanny states have proposed any time it changes hands a BGC is required. IE I want to loan you a hunting rifle gotta go to ffl and same when you return it to me.

As for RFL thats a can of worms that doesnt need opening and wont do anything.





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In some states, ANY sales of a gun have to go through an FFL dealer, with a background check, even private sales between individuals, but Texas and many other states, private sales between two individuals is perfectly legal. Many years ago, going to gun shows, yes, I have purchased guns from individuals.

In those states, the only requirement, is that the seller has no knowledge of the buyers criminal background to prohibit selling a gun to a prohibited person. Like Chris, some years ago, just for my own protection and piece of mind, I would only sell to either people I KNEW were not prohibited, and people I didn't know, only if they possessed a valid carry permit. I also used my local gun shop and would put guns on consignment for sale or trade, and let them do all the paperwork and the background check. Yes, I paid a small fee to do it that way, but at least any gun I sold using that method, I knew that the person buying was able to legally possess a gun.

I am sure that some private sales of guns between individuals at gun shows, that there are some that are prohibited persons obtaining guns that they have no legal right to buy or possess. Just a guess and speculation, I doubt that it's huge number of restricted persons gaining gun in such a manner.

Something I have believed and still do, no laws, that have been enacted, or that will be enacted, are going to stop any criminal from getting a gun if they feel the need for one. All they end up doing is making it harder for the law abiding gun owner to obtain a gun.

I have seen this for too many years now, they enact a gun law to try and stem or deter criminal activity, and they never work. So they try or they do enact new gun laws, that further restrict gun owners, which in fact still never work. My conclusion? It has never been about gun control, or deterring criminals, it's simply about controlling the citizens of our country.
Exactly Axxe.
Deranged people bent on performing evil acts will do so regardless.
Plenty of “illegal” ways to obtain a gun if one wishes.

So when an evil doer does so after(if and when they do) all these added laws are in place to protect us all. Whatever shale they do clammer for yet more laws its an endless cycle of stupidity. In which the stupidness just increase with each new round.


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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2019, 11:11:59 AM »
Another area of contention, are the liberal gun-haters who keep constantly saying there are "gun show" loopholes that bypass an NCIS background check. That is untrue. ANY gun dealer, regardless of where they do business, internet, brick and mortar shop, gun show, or in their home, has to do an NCIS background check before releasing the firearm to the transferee. That is federal gun law. Internet sales still have to go through an FFL dealer regardless of where the firearm originated from, and from who.

The only exception that I'm aware of in many states, Texas included, is if the person has a valid carry permit, then they can bypass the NCIS background check.

Unless I'm mistaken, I think that the big deal over these last mass killings is that the firearms were purchased legally. Unless, the person is acting in some sort of deranged or unstable manner at the time of purchase, how is the FFL dealer to know if the person is going to use the guns in an illegal manner of a mass killing? Simple answer? They won't unless they have a crystal ball that tells them!
The “loop hole” is when I sell one to you or vice versa at a “show” or however.
The antis want you and I to  have to perform the BGC by forcing us to go thru an FFL for any sale.

Some nanny states have proposed any time it changes hands a BGC is required. IE I want to loan you a hunting rifle gotta go to ffl and same when you return it to me.

As for RFL thats a can of worms that doesnt need opening and wont do anything.





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In some states, ANY sales of a gun have to go through an FFL dealer, with a background check, even private sales between individuals, but Texas and many other states, private sales between two individuals is perfectly legal. Many years ago, going to gun shows, yes, I have purchased guns from individuals.

In those states, the only requirement, is that the seller has no knowledge of the buyers criminal background to prohibit selling a gun to a prohibited person. Like Chris, some years ago, just for my own protection and piece of mind, I would only sell to either people I KNEW were not prohibited, and people I didn't know, only if they possessed a valid carry permit. I also used my local gun shop and would put guns on consignment for sale or trade, and let them do all the paperwork and the background check. Yes, I paid a small fee to do it that way, but at least any gun I sold using that method, I knew that the person buying was able to legally possess a gun.

I am sure that some private sales of guns between individuals at gun shows, that there are some that are prohibited persons obtaining guns that they have no legal right to buy or possess. Just a guess and speculation, I doubt that it's huge number of restricted persons gaining gun in such a manner.

Something I have believed and still do, no laws, that have been enacted, or that will be enacted, are going to stop any criminal from getting a gun if they feel the need for one. All they end up doing is making it harder for the law abiding gun owner to obtain a gun.

I have seen this for too many years now, they enact a gun law to try and stem or deter criminal activity, and they never work. So they try or they do enact new gun laws, that further restrict gun owners, which in fact still never work. My conclusion? It has never been about gun control, or deterring criminals, it's simply about controlling the citizens of our country.
Exactly Axxe.
Deranged people bent on performing evil acts will do so regardless.
Plenty of “illegal” ways to obtain a gun if one wishes.

So when an evil doer does so after(if and when they do) all these added laws are in place to protect us all. Whatever shale they do clammer for yet more laws its an endless cycle of stupidity. In which the stupidness just increase with each new round.


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Agreed Shield. We don't need more gun laws, we just need them to enforce the guns laws we already have and to leave law abiding gun owners alone. any person with common sense, knows that no law will ever prevent  a person from breaking that law. The law is in place to provide for punishment when that law is broken and to what degree of punishment, and it's length of time.

Personally, Instead of lawmakers making new laws, why not just provide much stiffer penalties when those laws are broken and actually also enforcing those laws.
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2019, 05:19:43 PM »
A few days before the first day of school, we had to attend a very interesting seminar today on helping kids with issues.  It turns out that (after the fact) about 70% of the mass killers had overt emotional  / mental problems that in retrospect were recognized by people around them, and might have been addressable long before SHTF if appropriate measures were in place.  But the US mental health approach is to effectively wait until something substantial happens.

One  major crux of the issue is we don't teach youngsters how to apologize, walk away, cool off or otherwise de-escalate a potentially explosive situation.  That's part of the contrast with other (often Northern European) countries that have some of that training for younger kids through early adulthood. 
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2019, 06:34:45 PM »
A few days before the first day of school, we had to attend a very interesting seminar today on helping kids with issues.  It turns out that (after the fact) about 70% of the mass killers had overt emotional  / mental problems that in retrospect were recognized by people around them, and might have been addressable long before SHTF if appropriate measures were in place.  But the US mental health approach is to effectively wait until something substantial happens.

One  major crux of the issue is we don't teach youngsters how to apologize, walk away, cool off or otherwise de-escalate a potentially explosive situation.  That's part of the contrast with other (often Northern European) countries that have some of that training for younger kids through early adulthood.

TXAZ, I put that blame squarely where it belongs on the shoulders of the parents. Those are things the parents should be teaching their children, and much of it before they ever start attending school as youngsters. Too bad they are trying so hard to be their children's best friends, instead of acting like parents.
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Democrats Talk of more Gun Control, After Two Recent Mass Shootings.
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2019, 11:50:02 AM »
Democrat candidate Elizabeth Warren has come up with her own proposals to stem gun violence. Hmmmm.....If she were president!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/elizabeth-warren-releases-plan-focused-on-reducing-gun-deaths/ar-AAFCth5?ocid=spartandhp

But nothing she proposes would work in the real world. All they do is restrict the law abiding gun owner.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
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"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)