Author Topic: No more red light cameras  (Read 1325 times)

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Offline Alte Schule

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No more red light cameras
« on: June 02, 2019, 04:25:01 PM »
My town voted them out a few years ago and now Gov. Abbott signed the state wide ban into law effective September 1st.  :th_thicon_idea: 
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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2019, 04:39:34 PM »
I'm all for following the rules but some cities around the DFW area effectively used this as an extortion scheme. 

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Offline Tango

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2019, 05:02:03 PM »
.
I'm once again the odd-ball of the group.....for thinking red light cameras are a good idea and I'm sorry to see them go
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2019, 06:41:43 PM »
Woohoo!!!!

 :smiley054: :smiley054: :smiley054: :smiley054: :smiley054: :smiley054:

Offline Shipwreck

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2019, 06:42:36 PM »
I was about to start that petition to get rid of them myself, before that other guy did here in town. But, while I was thinking about it - I noticed that he had started the procedure

Offline Tango

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2019, 07:05:58 PM »
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so with the "getting rid of" you folks who like to run red lights can do so without the risk of paying a fine - wow, good deal  :th_thicon_idea:
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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2019, 07:38:40 PM »
Red light cameras are not all wine and roses.  A secondary effect that starts to happen at intersections where they've put up red light cameras is that of increased rear end collisions.  One car (#2) following close behind the other car #1 thinks both can make it through the intersection before the light turns red and decides to tailgate car #1 through the intersection....until .......the driver in car #1 , at the last second, decides, 'no, I'll wait on the light', and steps on the brakes.  Then boom, car #2 rear ends car #1.

I'm happy to see them go.  But I do like the system Austin put up at some intersections, where the cameras decide if a car is going to run the light, then delays giving cross traffic the green light until the red light runner gets through.
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Offline randyjaco

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2019, 07:40:26 PM »
I am sure that if I decide to run a red light or more likely, miss seeing it, there will be a LEO near by to inform me of my discretion and write the appropriate ticket. Just like it was in the Old Days. Neither way stopped red light running.
Since I moved to Texas, I have always been amazed by the lack of concern by Texans of Red light violations. I can go through a changing light, only to look in the rearview to see 5-6 more cars behind me dashing through that same now red light.

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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2019, 09:22:27 PM »
Tango, I don't believe anyone here wants to run red lights.  At least I don't. Red light cameras are just revenue generators. In my town, at the major intersections, when they installed the camera's they changed the length of the yellow caution lights from 4 seconds to 2 1/2 seconds. Roll over the bold white stripe at the intersection before you come to a stop = ticket. Behind a semi traffic stopped on a red light and you can't see the light, traffic starts rolling but no the light turns red before you clear the intersection=ticket. Slam on your breaks when the light turns yellow because you know a red light camera is there and you get rear ended = someone gets a ticket or maybe injured.
The camera takes a photo of the license plate and some cameras can get a photo of the driver. Many vehicles have legal tint where you can't identify the operator. Loan your vehicle to a family member or employee when the photo was taken. It doesn't matter. You were in another country when the ticket was generated. It doesn't matter. You own it you pay. That's plain wrong.
Not stopping for a traffic device is a Class C Misdemeanor in this state. The Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "in all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right…to be confronted with the witnesses against him." This does not apply to red light cameras. Municipalities that have cameras in this state might assign a  officer to review the camera recordings or maybe a layman that received some type of training. In some instances it was a corporate employee of the company that provided the cameras that sent the letter that say's pay up. I know one of the officers in this town that was tasked with reviewing red light cameras recordings. He told me he probably green lighted less than 50% for citations. When he was replaced with a "trained" civilian that percentage jumped to over 75%.
Want to appeal. Sure you can if you pay $150 which is refundable if you win the appeal. You may have a chance at winning an appeal but most people will pay the $75 and be done with it. That's what the red light companies count on. It's all profit. And if you don't pay? Probably nothing. No arrest warrant and maybe a threatening letter or two, possibly a ding on your credit report (most credit reporting bureaus no longer accept these) but nothing else.
I haven't had a traffic citation in over twenty years, never had a red light camera citation, and don't intentionally risk breaking traffic laws. I'm pretty passionate about this subject as you can see but I respect your thoughts and opinions on this. :icon_wink:
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Offline Shield45

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2019, 09:36:49 PM »
It to me IS NOT about stopping people from dashing thru lights.
It is about as above money.

The camera can and should be used to provide evidence when a person passes through a changing light and and accident results.

We have all on occasion Im sure ran through a light but surely in most instances unintentionally. 

Glad to see at least one “big brother” intrusion go away.

Dont believe we will see a major increase in accidents as a result of red light cameras going bye bye. Nor will we see a huge decline. 


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Offline Axxe55

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2019, 09:38:20 PM »
Unless I'm mistaken, the red-light cameras only capture a violators license plate. Now, that is all fine and dandy, if the person that owns the vehicle is the violator. What if it's a friend that borrowed your vehicle, or your wife or husband that decided to switch vehicles, or Jr. has borrowed the family vehicle for the day? Or any other of a dozen scenarios that are "ticketing" the vehicle, or it's owner, and possibly not the actual violator?

In no way do I condone, or advocate, running red lights. I don't do it personally, and I think violators should be ticketed for doing so. But as mentioned, I see such cameras as revenue generators, not about increasing safety by ticketing violators. But many will say that is what they are about to justify their usage, safety.
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Offline Tango

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2019, 06:58:46 AM »
.
"they're just revenue generators for municipalities" is a bogus excuse for wanting to see red light cameras "go" - if it is a valid reason then lets do away with the entire "fine" system for all crimes and replace them with, oh I don't know, a good talking to perhaps

if the length of time that the yellow lights have been reduced - fix that but keep the camera systems

I'm not suggesting that any of you do go around looking for red lights to run so don't put words in my posts - what I'm suggesting is that knowing there's no cameras to see a possible violation will make "some" drivers, uh, more aggressive during the light changing events

now, the revenue generation (bogus) argument aside, there is no valid reason for not having electronic "help"

perhaps those of you who want 'em "to go" should take down your security camera systems at your properties - after all you don't want to be accused of "big brother intrusion" by possibly catching possible evil-doers on camera, do ya 
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Offline Shield45

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No more red light cameras
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2019, 09:34:40 AM »
.
"they're just revenue generators for municipalities" is a bogus excuse for wanting to see red light cameras "go" - if it is a valid reason then lets do away with the entire "fine" system for all crimes and replace them with, oh I don't know, a good talking to perhaps

if the length of time that the yellow lights have been reduced - fix that but keep the camera systems

I'm not suggesting that any of you do go around looking for red lights to run so don't put words in my posts - what I'm suggesting is that knowing there's no cameras to see a possible violation will make "some" drivers, uh, more aggressive during the light changing events

now, the revenue generation (bogus) argument aside, there is no valid reason for not having electronic "help"

perhaps those of you who want 'em "to go" should take down your security camera systems at your properties - after all you don't want to be accused of "big brother intrusion" by possibly catching possible evil-doers on camera, do ya
Because they DONT WORK and statistics prove they increase accidents and injuries not reduce.

A quick search will provide that info to you.
This was in 09.

Corpus Christi, Texas Red Light Cameras Increase Accidents
A three-year review shows accidents and injuries increased at red light camera intersections in Corpus Christi, Texas.

Rep. Solomon Ortiz, Jr.
A review of preliminary collision data supplied by the city of Corpus Christi, Texas shows that the installation of red light cameras has done nothing to improve safety. Overall, the accident situation worsened at photo enforced intersections at a time when decreased traffic levels have brought accident rates nationwide to an all-time low.

The total number of accidents in Corpus Christi increased 14 percent, from 310 incidents to 353, at nine locations where automated ticketing machines were stationed. Contrary to the claim that red light cameras reduce the severity of collisions, the number of accidents involving injuries increased 28 percent from 140 to 179. Rear end collisions also increased by nearly a third from 160 to 208.

The city's data compared about nineteen months of accident history at nine intersections before cameras were installed compared with a roughly equal period during which the devices were actively issuing citations. Although the cameras are often sold as devices that "save lives," there were no fatal accidents recorded at any of the nine intersections during the three-year study period, with or without the cameras.

 


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Offline Tango

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2019, 11:18:32 AM »

..Because they DONT WORK and statistics prove they increase accidents and injuries not reduce..

(you're "social media shouting shield, not attractive..)

any "statistic" can be found that'll back your "they DONT WORK" argument and since you seem to like statistics (and after a "quick search") here's an article you might wanna read :

https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/calculator/factsheet/redlight.html
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Offline Shield45

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No more red light cameras
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2019, 12:16:11 PM »

..Because they DONT WORK and statistics prove they increase accidents and injuries not reduce..

(you're "social media shouting shield, not attractive..)

any "statistic" can be found that'll back your "they DONT WORK" argument and since you seem to like statistics (and after a "quick search") here's an article you might wanna read :

https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/calculator/factsheet/redlight.html
Well sorry for shouting. However they are ineffective and glad they are gone.
One less big brother intrusion works for me.
People do now and will continue to disregard lights just as they yield at stop signs and stop at yield signs or on the freeway entrance ramp.
Maybe we need cameras at those places so people will do better. Worked so well at lights.

Some People do and will continue to drive like idiots cameras wont stop it.

I sit at the light to leave my hood every day (side street on to main rd only a 3way int.)it has a camera and almost every time I sit there at least 1 car blows the light. I know to wait and be sure all are stopping not to just go on green. Lived in the same place over 13yrs seen many a crash at the light no difference with camera vs before as far as light runners actually seems like more however that is likely the increase in traffic over the yrs.


They dont work.





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Offline Axxe55

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2019, 12:53:20 PM »
.
"they're just revenue generators for municipalities" is a bogus excuse for wanting to see red light cameras "go" - if it is a valid reason then lets do away with the entire "fine" system for all crimes and replace them with, oh I don't know, a good talking to perhaps

if the length of time that the yellow lights have been reduced - fix that but keep the camera systems

I'm not suggesting that any of you do go around looking for red lights to run so don't put words in my posts - what I'm suggesting is that knowing there's no cameras to see a possible violation will make "some" drivers, uh, more aggressive during the light changing events

now, the revenue generation (bogus) argument aside, there is no valid reason for not having electronic "help"

perhaps those of you who want 'em "to go" should take down your security camera systems at your properties - after all you don't want to be accused of "big brother intrusion" by possibly catching possible evil-doers on camera, do ya

If they were ticketing the driver, and not the vehicle, then I would agree they might not be revenue generators, but they are ticketing the vehicle, not the driver. And if the owner of that vehicle isn't the one driving it, when the infraction occurred, then that system is flawed and not ticketing the actual offender that did run the stop light. Then the owner of the vehicle is the one left to fight the system. When an actual officer stops an offender, if the vehicle isn't stolen, he doesn't really give one hoot about the vehicle, because he is writing the ticket for the driver that committed the infraction.

I will say that maybe in some locations, that maybe they do serve a useful purpose, but maybe no so much in others. I will agree that removing them in some locations, that yes, because they aren't there anymore that some drivers may become more aggressive in running "yellow" lights.
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Offline Tango

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2019, 01:07:36 PM »
.
ya know Axxe, I always know who's driving which vehicle in my family and if a particular vehicle of ours is ticketed (and it's someone other than me) that person is sure as heck gonna hear about it, from me

but, for me, enough of this topic - it's sorta like religion or politics - differences of opinion on a forum isn't gonna change anyone's mind (leastwise not mine)
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Offline Shield45

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No more red light cameras
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2019, 02:27:12 PM »
.
ya know Axxe, I always know who's driving which vehicle in my family and if a particular vehicle of ours is ticketed (and it's someone other than me) that person is sure as heck gonna hear about it, from me
And if the person operating it at the time does not pay up etc the warrant is issued for them not the car. So next time your driving it they dont stop you for someone elses offense.

BTW went to my house at lunch and when leaving my neighborhood on the way back low n behold a car in mid intersection when my light goes green Glad the camera was in place.




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Offline Ranger99

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2019, 03:19:58 PM »
. . . Red light cameras are just revenue generators. . . .
The camera takes a photo of the license plate and some cameras can get a photo of the driver. Many vehicles have legal tint where you can't identify the operator. Loan your vehicle to a family member or employee when the photo was taken. It doesn't matter. You were in another country when the ticket was generated. It doesn't matter. You own it you pay. That's plain wrong. . . .

^ ^ ^ ^ THIS RIGHT HERE ^ ^ ^ ^

the whole thing of a citation or jail is to punish the guilty party.
if you're punishing someone because their name is on the registration
and not trying to get the person doing the illicit act, that's just
issuing a citation to generate revenue. there's no other way to call it.
if we're not trying for the guilty party and just looking for a patsy,
i don't see any point to any law enforcement at all.

here's how i view it -

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Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible

Offline randyjaco

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Re: No more red light cameras
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2019, 05:25:55 PM »
Unless I'm mistaken, the red-light cameras only capture a violators license plate. Now, that is all fine and dandy, if the person that owns the vehicle is the violator. What if it's a friend that borrowed your vehicle, or your wife or husband that decided to switch vehicles, or Jr. has borrowed the family vehicle for the day? Or any other of a dozen scenarios that are "ticketing" the vehicle, or it's owner, and possibly not the actual violator?

In no way do I condone, or advocate, running red lights. I don't do it personally, and I think violators should be ticketed for doing so. But as mentioned, I see such cameras as revenue generators, not about increasing safety by ticketing violators. But many will say that is what they are about to justify their usage, safety.

That may be true in Texas. But I lived in California previously. The traffic cameras there not only got my plate number but there was an additional photo of my smiling face :frown:  I guess that was so I couldn't say that someone else was driving.
The quality of the pictures was very good.
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