Author Topic: Mandatory Military Service?  (Read 3252 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2019, 04:23:53 PM »
Skolnick, if you want to think of mandatory military service as "indentured servitude" or "slavery" that is entirely your business. As an American living in this country, who enjoys the freedoms and rights that I do, I do feel a debt of gratitude towards those who have sacrificed for this country. That is entirely my right to feel that way.

If you want to trot out the 13th Amendment, it order to bolster a failing argument, (which I would suspect very few would agree with.) that in any way mandatory military service is in any way, a form of slavery, or indentured servitude, as you believe it to be, is pure hogwash IMO.

You are pretty much sitting at the kiddies table in this discussion. But rest assured, your opinions on this, from what I'm seeing is of a very small minority, that even those of us who didn't serve in the military don't share one bit. And apparently even the courts of higher justice seem to disagree with you.

IMO, yes, you are entitled to your opinions, but don't be surprised if you are getting opposing opinions that refute your statements.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline Skolnick

  • Range Rat
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #41 on: April 07, 2019, 06:29:03 PM »
Skolnick, if you want to think of mandatory military service as "indentured servitude" or "slavery" that is entirely your business. As an American living in this country, who enjoys the freedoms and rights that I do, I do feel a debt of gratitude towards those who have sacrificed for this country. That is entirely my right to feel that way.

Agreed! It is absolutely your right to feel the way you feel -- but what gives you the right to impose your feelings on the unwilling?

If you want to trot out the 13th Amendment, it order to bolster a failing argument, (which I would suspect very few would agree with.) that in any way mandatory military service is in any way, a form of slavery, or indentured servitude, as you believe it to be, is pure hogwash IMO.

So far, no one has even attempted to harmonized the letter and spirit of the Thirteenth Amendment with "some sort of mandatory service".

Who wants to be the first to embarrass me by explaining to everyone how shall not exist except for punishment actually means may exist for noble causes?

Anyone?

You are pretty much sitting at the kiddies table in this discussion.

In my first post, I responded to your upholding "some sort of mandatory service" for young men and women.

In that post, the only thing I wrote was the text to the Thirteenth Amendment. The idea was to demonstrate that the notion of "some sort of mandatory service" is totally incompatible with the highest law in the land. If those at the adult table want to advocate for human bondage, then I am good with preaching from the children's table.

But rest assured, your opinions on this, from what I'm seeing is of a very small minority, that even those of us who didn't serve in the military don't share one bit.

Which means what? That I should be embarrassed that the adult table doesn't care about "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude ... shall exist" when it is inconvenient?

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude ... shall exist" is the strongest language in the Constitution; it is strong than "shall make no law" or "shall not be infringed".

And apparently even the courts of higher justice seem to disagree with you.

"No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due."

Going by the Constitutional passage above, those aforementioned "courts of higher justice" sent Dred Scott back -- it was the law of the land. Everyone here good with that?

But rest assured, your opinions on this, from what I'm seeing is of a very small minority, that even those of us who didn't serve in the military don't share one bit.

Popularity is for politicians and celebrities.

IMO, yes, you are entitled to your opinions, but don't be surprised if you are getting opposing opinions that refute your statements.

Popularity is for politicians and celebrities.

Offline randyjaco

  • Has Trigger Control
  • **
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2019, 06:37:48 PM »
Give me room and board and $15 an hour and you can draft me too!

That makes your involuntary servitude voluntary???


I think EVERY American citizen owes a debt to his or her country. That debt ought to be paid with some valuable sort of service. That could (preferably) be military service.

As in the citizen exists to serve the country?

As in, the Declaration of Independence got it wrong?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ...

I feel that that debt is a moral one, not a legal one. As I indicated, one can opt out. That opting out does not hinder your pursuit of happiness. It just says that if you are not willing to put something in, you won't be able to draw anything out. Therefore no servitude. It's a risk/benefit situation.

Rand
Do yourself a favor, find America One News Network (OANN) on your cable carrier. 208 on Uverse. News without the Network BS or bias

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again." (Unknown)

"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)

Offline Gilgondorin

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2816
  • .: Gear of War :.
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2019, 07:17:00 PM »
Give me room and board and $15 an hour and you can draft me too!

That makes your involuntary servitude voluntary???


I think EVERY American citizen owes a debt to his or her country. That debt ought to be paid with some valuable sort of service. That could (preferably) be military service.

As in the citizen exists to serve the country?

As in, the Declaration of Independence got it wrong?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ...

I feel that that debt is a moral one, not a legal one. As I indicated, one can opt out. That opting out does not hinder your pursuit of happiness. It just says that if you are not willing to put something in, you won't be able to draw anything out. Therefore no servitude. It's a risk/benefit situation.

Rand

Okay, but that's still some f***in' bulls*** thoe.

The point where a moral obligation stops being a moral one and becomes a downright dishonestly labeled LEGAL debt is at the point where refusing to cooperate with a mandatory stint in the federal service suddenly denies all things like citizenship, or the right to vote. Taking that away becomes a LEGAL consequence, like not registering for the selective service by age 26 currently is!

The founding fathers are probably spinning in their graves at this very moment knowing that the insanity has come full circle and the supposed Patriots once tasked with keeping this country safe are now the ones advocating for the same crap they fought against to establish this country. Quartering troops was once labeled a service to the crown BY the crown; the boarding of ships, and the forced impressment into British Military Naval galleys of the crew was not optional, and regarded as a service to the crown and necessary for the continued existence of the British empire. Jaco... Dude, WTAF man??? Where the hell was it written into the Constitution OR the bill of rights that the "well regulated militia" we have used in political debate against the Democrats was mandatory, and could result in immediately being boxed up and shipped back to England for refusal to participate in? You're starting to advocate for the wanton trampling of individual rights and freedoms of the common man that the left has traditionally been known for, just for different reasons and on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

If the framers intended for the entire nation to march — knees locked and bayonets mounted — forward as one with their muskets held at Port arms or else, don't you think something to that effect would have been written along with everything else they specifically addressed (or in some cases, specifically DIDN'T address)?

"Service guarantees citizenship!" Is literally a line verbatim from the satirical anti-fascism commentary movie Starship Troopers. I cannot believe I'm actually seeing it getting used here seriously; somebody call Paul Verhoeven and demand he make another movie that tries harder to get the point across that war makes fascists of everybody, before it's too late!!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 08:32:29 PM by Gilgondorin »

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #44 on: April 07, 2019, 08:24:40 PM »
Mandatory military service, is something I see as a POSSIBLE solution to the welfare situation that many live under. IMO, the vast majority of those on the welfare dole, are bottom-feeding scum suckers, who are just too lazy to get out and work for a living. And the part that hacks me off even more, are the liberal socialist politicians who favor such groups of people and want to support them even more, (simply for more votes!) while trying to cut even more funding to veterans who have sacrificed for our country.

So I see it as possible means of doing much good for a greater number of people in our society. It could further strengthen our military branches, gets people off welfare, teaches them a usable skill in that they can support themselves, and would better allocate funds to help veterans live a better life.

I also support and advocate drug testing of anyone seeking any sort of state or federal welfare social programs in the form of money, housing, or food benefits. If you test positive for ANY drugs, unless you can prove they are prescribed by a practicing doctor, you should be disqualified from being able to seek any assistance until you can prove you have been clean for at least a year. IMO, if you can afford to do drugs, then you can afford to support yourself in some way.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline randyjaco

  • Has Trigger Control
  • **
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2019, 08:46:00 PM »
Yeah, just because you were born here, you are entitled to all the Benys with no skin in the game  :th_nuts:
As it has been stated before "FREEDOM IS NOT FREE" and no one should be entitled to more than he puts in.
It's a good thing that our Continental soldiers didn't have your sense of entitlement.
Yeah back in the 70's I could have claimed involuntary servitude. My father and grandfather could have claimed it during WW I and II, as my uncle during the Korean War. We could have read about the war in prison and  possibly the new winner of those wars would have rewarded us accordingly :th_nuts:

I can't believe that I am arguing with people whose constitutional principles are based on a Hollywood movie. The liberal writers of which, more than likely than not, feel that the Second Amendment is out-dated and must be eliminated. But hell, what can have more veritas than a Hollywood movie?







« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 11:16:07 AM by randyjaco »
Do yourself a favor, find America One News Network (OANN) on your cable carrier. 208 on Uverse. News without the Network BS or bias

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again." (Unknown)

"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2019, 08:50:20 PM »
Another one I agree with, that some have stated elsewhere, is that unless you have served in some capacity for this country, and not necessarily in the military, that a person is disqualified from any elected office, state or federal level.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline TXAZ

  • Gun Guru
  • ******
  • Posts: 7347
  • أنا لست إرهابياً
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2019, 09:56:06 PM »
Another one I agree with, that some have stated elsewhere, is that unless you have served in some capacity for this country, and not necessarily in the military, that a person is disqualified from any elected office, state or federal level.

While I agree with that in principle, there are so many exceptions and I believe a constitutional issue it probably won't (can't) fly.
.

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2019, 11:25:24 PM »
Another one I agree with, that some have stated elsewhere, is that unless you have served in some capacity for this country, and not necessarily in the military, that a person is disqualified from any elected office, state or federal level.

While I agree with that in principle, there are so many exceptions and I believe a constitutional issue it probably won't (can't) fly.

I know it would never happen, but it's a concept I believe and agree with.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline Skolnick

  • Range Rat
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2019, 11:13:02 AM »
Mandatory military service, is something I see as a POSSIBLE solution to the welfare situation that many live under ... I see it as possible means of doing much good for a greater number of people in our society. It could further strengthen our military branches, gets people off welfare, teaches them a usable skill in that they can support themselves ...

So if Caesar determines that copper is a necessity for the Republic, it is okay to force people to work the sulphur mines?! After all, copper is a strategic material for the greater good, and such enslavement teaches them a usable skill in that they can support themselves. Yes?

I also support and advocate drug testing of anyone seeking any sort of state or federal welfare social programs in the form of money, housing, or food benefits. If you test positive for ANY drugs, unless you can prove they are prescribed by a practicing doctor, you should be disqualified from being able to seek any assistance until you can prove you have been clean for at least a year. IMO, if you can afford to do drugs, then you can afford to support yourself in some way.

In general, I can agree with this, but the devil is in the details -- and it is a separate issue.

Another one I agree with, that some have stated elsewhere, is that unless you have served in some capacity for this country, and not necessarily in the military, that a person is disqualified from any elected office, state or federal level.

We do it in a limited degree now. Service in the military will get you money toward a college education or a home loan at favorable terms. Non-vets are disqualified. Depending on circumstances, it will get you highly discounted, or free, medical care. Again, non-vets are disqualified.

Conceptually, I have no problem expanding those benefits to other aspects of citizenship.

Offline randyjaco

  • Has Trigger Control
  • **
  • Posts: 501
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2019, 11:32:14 AM »
Mandatory military service, is something I see as a POSSIBLE solution to the welfare situation that many live under. IMO, the vast majority of those on the welfare dole, are bottom-feeding scum suckers, who are just too lazy to get out and work for a living.

For decades the military has been a step up for the underprivileged who were willing to make the effort to improve themselves. But really would you desire bottom feeders, who didn't want to participate, defending our liberty? We would do better with foreign mercenaries. I think I would want my war fighters to want to be in the service, even if it were only to pay a moral obligation. I would actually prefer individuals who felt that they were professional military and we're proud of it.
Do yourself a favor, find America One News Network (OANN) on your cable carrier. 208 on Uverse. News without the Network BS or bias

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again." (Unknown)

"There are three and only three ways to reform our Congressional legislation, familiarly called, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box" (Frederick Douglass)

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2019, 01:02:55 PM »
Mandatory military service, is something I see as a POSSIBLE solution to the welfare situation that many live under. IMO, the vast majority of those on the welfare dole, are bottom-feeding scum suckers, who are just too lazy to get out and work for a living.

For decades the military has been a step up for the underprivileged who were willing to make the effort to improve themselves. But really would you desire bottom feeders, who didn't want to participate, defending our liberty? We would do better with foreign mercenaries. I think I would want my war fighters to want to be in the service, even if it were only to pay a moral obligation. I would actually prefer individuals who felt that they were professional military and we're proud of it.

Randy, that is an excellent point that others have made in reference to such a question. I do think that is a possibility and a downside to mandatory military service.

I have countered with that some sort of selection process and evaluation taking place, and only placing those who wanted to serve their time in the military being selected if they passed all other qualifications for military service. The slackers, send them in different direction, picking up garbage off the side of the roadways!

Another counter-argument I have used is that years ago, a young man got into trouble, and the judge sometimes gave them a choice, either the Army, or jail. Many chose the Army over jail or prison. Some it reformed hem from their criminal ways, and I'm sure some still slacked off the time spent in the Army.

Personally, I think it all boils down to the individual person and what they decide to make of the time and experience spent there. Whether that spend it productively, or not, and better themselves or not would be up to them.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2019, 02:40:27 PM »
Skolnick, we don't live in the time of Caesar, so that is pretty much a moot point in this discussion. I will also point out, That was different time, and much different societal cultures than what we live in today. Slavery was a very accepted practice that took place in many countries during that time period. We don't live in such a society, and slavery last I remember was outlawed over hundred years ago in this country.

Even IF they did make some sort of military service or community service mandatory, do you really believe they are going to expend time and energy tracking down those who didn't comply? I seriously doubt it! I don't think it should be a requisite qualification for citizenship by any means, but as RandyJaco brought up, and I agree with serving has it's own benefits. Such as maybe the right to vote, or to apply for and receive federal benefits like funding for college and other pursuits like federal loans for a business. Those who did serve a mandatory service of some sort either in the military, or other community service, would be entitled to vote, apply for and receive federal grants and loans, and to serve in elected official offices.

Personally, I think everyone born in this country should be a citizen, as soon as the ink is dry on the birth certificate. Those willing, and wanting to perform some sort of mandatory service in the military or the community, should have greater benefits.

So really your argument of slavery or indentured servitude is falling pretty flat. And seriously, we live in country where our laws and the Constitution are ruled upon in the courts, and whether we agree or disagree with those rulings or the law is really irrelevant IMO. They are the law, and we are obligated to abide by them. When people go around picking and choosing which laws they will, or won't abide by or those they decide they will ignore, simply because they don't agree with them, leads to anarchy and chaos. So far from what I have read, the courts have ruled that the draft and selective service are not un-Constitutional, and therefor they still stand that I can see.

What you think, or feel about this means about as much as a mouse's fart in cotton field to me. It really has about the same amount of effect on my everyday life as well. Don't like the current laws, then work to get them changed. Talk to your legislators, file a lawsuit and take it to the supreme court, or become a legislator yourself. But seriously, going on any forum and bemoaning such things to me is immature and childish if you are not actually doing something to make a positive change in what you believe in. Boils down to this for me. Either you are part of the problem, or you are part of the solution. I tell people when they are moaning and whining about such things, put up or shut up.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline Skolnick

  • Range Rat
  • *
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2019, 04:01:43 PM »
Skolnick, we don't live in the time of Caesar, so that is pretty much a moot point in this discussion.

I disagree. I was not arguing in a court of law, I was making a point.

Okay, to make it current, how about if Kim Jong-un were to decide that slavery in his factories was good idea -- after all, it's for the greater good, and such enslavement teaches them a usable skill in that they can support themselves. Now is Axxe55 okay with that present-day slavery?

Even IF they did make some sort of military service or community service mandatory, do you really believe they are going to expend time and energy tracking down those who didn't comply? I seriously doubt it!

As in, mandatory service that is not mandatory?

Those who did serve a mandatory service of some sort either in the military, or other community service, would be entitled to vote, apply for and receive federal grants and loans, and to serve in elected official offices.

Meaning only those who opt for mandatory service get to vote or receive grants or serve in elected office?

"Opt" as in the root of "optional" as in "optional mandatory service"?

Personally, I think everyone born in this country should be a citizen, as soon as the ink is dry on the birth certificate.

Amendment Fourteen: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

Those willing, and wanting to perform some sort of mandatory service in the military or the community, should have greater benefits.

As in, if they are unwilling to perform the mandatory service that is not mandatory, they just don't get GI benefits?

So really your argument of slavery or indentured servitude is falling pretty flat.

As in, Axxe55 is an advocate for involuntary servitude in the present-day United States because my arguments are unconvincing?

And seriously, we live in country where our laws and the Constitution are ruled upon in the courts, and whether we agree or disagree with those rulings or the law is really irrelevant IMO.

I never challenged the court rulings; I only challenged the forum to reconcile the letter and spirit of 14th Amendment with the advocation of involuntary servitude. I don't think anyone can, but all are free to prove me wrong.

I tell people when they are moaning and whining about such things, put up or shut up.

I didn't moan; I only challenged the forum to reconcile the letter and spirit of 14th Amendment with the advocation of involuntary servitude. Again, I don't think anyone can, but all are still free to prove me wrong.

Offline Tango

  • Military
  • Always in the 10 Ring
  • *****
  • Posts: 3373
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2019, 04:31:19 PM »
.
how do you prove a $3 bill is "wrong" - simple.....try to spend one
Follow Me - Martin Baker Tie Club member
Si Vis pacem, para Bellum

Offline Gilgondorin

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2816
  • .: Gear of War :.
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2019, 05:25:15 PM »
I can't believe that I am arguing with people whose constitutional principles are based on a Hollywood movie. The liberal writers of which, more than likely than not, feel that the Second Amendment is out-dated and must be eliminated. But hell, what can have more veritas than a Hollywood movie?

Paul Verhoeven made the original Starship Troopers movie to lampoon the idea that everyone belongs in the military not because he's some damn tree-hugging hippie, but because he was trying to show the world the hazards associated with fascism. As a child growing up under Nazi occupation during WWII, he saw them propagate the same attitudes and values and what it eventually lead to: a war in which millions were massacred all on the pretense of serving the greater good as defined by a supreme political authority that held itself to be just and moral — after all, Hitler was a vegetarian who taught that drinking, smoking, and not exercising was immoral. The Nazis ran government work programs, and technically ALSO taught young boys "valuable life skills" at military school boot camp scout camp.

I'm not saying I'm getting my political opinions from a movie, but I DO think it's highly ironic that dear old grandad fought against fascism in WWII, only for you to come up pushing the same style of government-enforced regimentation decades later.

Per Reich Labor Service Act of June 26, 1935:
Quote from: Nazi Germany
"(1) The Reich Labor Service is an honorary service to the German people.
(2) All young Germans of both sexes are obliged to serve their people in the Reich Labor Service.
(3) The Reich Labor Service is to educate the German youth in the spirit of National Socialism to the national community and to the true working attitude, above all to the due respect of manual labor.
4) The Reich Labor Service is intended for the performance of charitable work.

Mandatory federal service in either the military or domestic "peace" corps, supposedly for the good of the people, which results in prison time or loss of social services if not participated in, and that pounds into its subjugates the value in working for the political aims and interests of a warmongering government because it's the "honorable" thing to do. Sound familiar? If not, then I hope you heard my facepalm all the way from wherever you are just now, because it was indeed mighty. :th_thicon_lol:

If the Vietnam war showed us anything, it's that even the United States government can't be trusted not to send its fighting men and women into a pointless, expensive, never-ending, and bloody war with no clearly defined goal, no real tangible benefit, and no action plan with teeth for dealing with the fact that there country we were sponsoring never had any real intention of participating in their own fight.

Moreover, it was completely misaligned with the will of the American people, and in the end achieved nothing; to this day, Vietnam is a relative non-factor in day to day political affairs at the global level. If push were to come to shove between us and China, the technology backward Vietnamese would probably have very little material effect from a military standpoint compared to the US or South Korea.

* * * EDIT * * *

And one more thing I'd like to add: so far, I guess my opposition to having America become a fascist military dictatorship like Ancient frickin' Sparta or Nazi Germany somehow makes me "entitled" (again, thermonuclear gravometric time warping facepalm of the ages :facepalm:). I'd like to clarify that I don't at all oppose the draft where it's used legitimately to defend the country against bonafide evil like it was during World War II -- I know it doesn't count for jack diddly, but I registered for the draft the day of my 18th birthday, so I absolutely believe the draft can clearly be a beneficial use in which I'd participate in if need be.

In my opinion, history has shown us time and time again that conscripts will very rarely ever fight as hard or as well as a service comprised of volunteers -- as some of you have already pointed out, lowering the bar to include malcontents and ne'er do wells will only result in a net negative of watering down our fighting force and jeopardizing national security needlessly, by charging the people most likely to desert with fighting to keep us alive.

I do not believe mandatory federal service to be a valid institution. However, keeping the draft around for wartime emergency purposes as we already do now is perfectly fine in my opinion, and I support expanding it to include both men and women, so long as the standards for combat are not lowered to the point that they place an entire unit in danger because a 5'1", 103 lb. ballerina might somehow find herself responsible for carrying around the platoon's LMG, or that we fail to punish those who purposefully get themselves pregnant to avoid going into combat (as is certainly gonna happen by the boat load if we start forcibly recruiting welfare junkies).
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 05:59:50 PM by Gilgondorin »

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2019, 06:40:51 PM »
Sherman, is that you back from the dead?  :P

Sherman Skolnick, was a journalist and political activist in the 1950s and 1960s.
He Wrote "The Overthrow of the American Republic" 2001. Died 2006.

Seems almost like what hogwash is being spread around here!  :th_nuts:

You would be surprised at what people can dig up on the old interwebs.  :wave1:
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline DCD327

  • 15 Yard Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1855
  • Military.
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2019, 10:44:56 PM »
 :th_thicon_lol:
Sherman, is that you back from the dead?  :P

Sherman Skolnick, was a journalist and political activist in the 1950s and 1960s.
He Wrote "The Overthrow of the American Republic" 2001. Died 2006.

Seems almost like what hogwash is being spread around here!  :th_nuts:

You would be surprised at what people can dig up on the old interwebs.  :wave1:

 :th_thicon_lol: :th_thicon_lol: :th_thicon_lol:
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline Axxe55

  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • ****
  • Posts: 2335
  • Trophy Husband! Just ask my wife!
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2019, 10:35:55 PM »
IMO, welfare and the social programs, are pretty much enslaving people, without them even knowing it's happening. And as long as they are receiving the free goods and have their cell phones and big screen TV's, they are plenty happy to sub-exist in society, where they have to do nothing, to get all they want. They have been stripped of initiative and desire, and self-esteem. They traded it for a free hand-out, of crumbs, and subsistence with no knowledge of failure, nor success in their lives.

Now would instituting a mandatory military service period solve these issues? That I don't know, but IMO, it could possibly be a step in the right direction. Learning a skill or trade, and being able to support one's self without resorting to welfare or a criminal life seems like a fair trade to me. It would also strengthen the numbers of those serving in the military, which I think would be an added benefit as well.
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
NRA Member. TSRA Member.
"I have one nerve left, and it seems there is that one idiot that feels the need to get on it."
"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline realitycheck

  • Junior Shooter
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Mandatory Military Service?
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2019, 10:27:39 AM »
I know this is slightly off topic but can we stop using terms like “Libtard” and “Regpugnantan”? It makes people look moronic and dehumanizes the other side making them not worthy of basic human decency not to mention that it shows a lack of Grace.

As for the topic at hand:

Mandatory military service is fine in theory but in reality it would be DOA. As has already been said, not everyone is capable of military service for a variety of reasons. Likewise, the Civilian Conservation Corps, or whatever it would be known as these days, would also be DOA. While many high schoolers do volunteer/charity work for their college applications far more simply can't do it. They're too busy working part time jobs (and sometimes full time jobs) to help support themselves and their families. Others won't do it as a way to say &^%$ the system and so on. And when you start penalizing those that can't/won't do either by taking away their ability to hold certain offices, they're right to vote, or their citizenship, then you are, in fact, talking about fascism. Robert A. Heinlein actually wrote a book that was published in 1959 that dealt with a futuristic society that was essentially just like that. It's a pretty good book by an awesome writer and if you would like to read it it's called STARSHIP TROOPERS (the movie wasn't bad either).

Also, I think that the idea that a person owes some kind of a debt to the country of their birth simply for being born in that country is extremely asinine. That sounds like, at best, indentured servitude from birth and, at worst, slavery, until you can either buy or win your freedom in some fashion from the government. PEOPLE make a country not the other way around. IF there is a debt to be paid it is most certainly NOT to the country but to the IDEALS the FOUNDING FATHERS put on paper and can be repaid by following in their footsteps and fighting against tyranny and injustice and generally being decent human beings.

Axxe55, when you said 'welfare and the social programs, are pretty much enslaving people, without them even knowing it's happening' were you referring to what's commonly known as the Social Safety Net? Which includes things like the right to basic healthcare, education, unemployment benefits, legal aid, victims' rights, social security, workers compensation, consumer protection, and homeless shelters? Because I happen to believe these are not only necessary but incredibly beneficial to society as a whole. Sadly, they're being underfunded/defunded, politicized to death and picked apart by politicians and corporate lobbyists to name but two groups attacking them. And like you, I also believe that anyone seeking welfare benefits like financial assistance, subsidized housing and food benefits should be drug tested.