Author Topic: ..powder loads..  (Read 1226 times)

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Online Tango

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..powder loads..
« on: January 26, 2019, 07:06:03 AM »
.
asked this while in a different topic but no answer :  (9mm, for instance)  do the factories use different powder loads for 115, 124, 147 grain bullets or are they all the same "potency" no matter what the weight of the bullet  ?
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2019, 09:02:05 AM »
I believe they use different loads

Offline DCD327

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2019, 11:17:01 PM »
THats a loaded question,,,, no pun.  :th_thicon_funny:
I was told for example, CCI uses the same powder loads in 115 & 124 grain, but different load in 147.

I think you will find more flavors than ice cream in that respect.

Powder type, brass thickness, primer type, bullet shape, bullet grain,

ALL totally dependent on a particular manufacturers specifications and varied by tolerances. Then add the companys number crunchers into all that.

Every manufacturer is different.

The trick in my book is to find the most consistent.
Tight tolerances produces that.
Maybe not so noticeable @ 10 feet. But shoot 25 & 50 yards with a pistol, or 100 Plus in a carbine, poor quality control  ammo shows up REALLY quick.

I want accuracy + dependability. TOP priority for me. Then Price.
And as much as I shoot, a happy medium was sought.

Example. ( this after well over 15,000  - 9mm rounds fired over the past 4 years.)
9mm @ 100 yards, even outta a deadly accurate JR Carbine. Ive also got multiple CZ 75's, Beretta 92's, and  Ruger Blackhawk convertibles in multiple barrel lengths.
(all the same bullet grain) Once poor quality ammo was seen in the JRC off the bench, then it showed up as more noticeable in the pistols.

But in the JRC, 16 barrel, the test was @ 100 yards.

CCI Blazer brass,, dead on @ 100 yards.
CCI Blazer aluminum,, 4 inch group.
American Eagle,, 12 inch group. Powder measurements also not consistent. bad enough its obvious just from the sound. FTF's, squibs, pure shit.
Winchester white box,, uneven powder loads, squibs, horrible accuracy. All over the place.
Wally world silver box Federal, even shittier. 24" group. FTF's, split brass, HORRIBLE accuracy.

In respects to ammo for 9mm, CCI Blazer brass has been the best for me. The ONLY issue Ive ever found is about 1 dud, (aka hard primer) in a 1000 round case. Sometimes a 2nd hit ignites it, sometimes not.

45 ACP,, in both  1911's and Ruger Blackhawk convertibles, TOTALLY different results. Remington ammo seems to work the best in that caliber for me.   :thinker:

Now keep in mind, Ive seen others who totally got different results than I did.
Different guns, different trigger man, etc, etc, etc.
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline Shield45

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 05:52:32 AM »
ONLY way to get CONSISTENT ammo is load your own.
Factory mass produced ammo will not yield consistent results due to the production tolerances built in.

I dont reload (yet I do plan to start) but it makes sense (to me) that you can move a larger mass at the same(or close to) velocity with out doing so.



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Online Tango

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 05:55:49 AM »
.
this isn't important to me, the different weights of the bullets just got me thinking

and since there's no definitive answer amongst the forum folk, perhaps I'll try an email to one of the manufacturers.....
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Online Tango

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 02:54:46 PM »
.
I spoke with the ammo folks at Federal (couldn't get to any Winchester people) - and didn't really get an answer to the question (either)
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Offline DCD327

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2019, 05:26:33 PM »
For full disclosure,, the case of 9mm Winchester white box I had, after burning through most of the case, and getting horrible results, since squibs were plentiful, I was burning it up in a  6.5 Blackhawk ( basically just to save the brass)  . 
I did notice the INSIDE of a couple of the boxes had what appeared to be water stains on the cardboard.
So it may have been water damaged.  :thinker: Dunno.
Ive heard other praise that WWB 9mm ammo. I didnt ever buy anymore since,
 A. I buy it by the case.
B. after that experience, screw it, CCI Blazer Brass was easier to get anyway and my LGS was giving me a good deal @ about $210 per case OTD. .

About 8 boxes of Winchester WB in 45 acp, performed really good in a 7.5 Blackhawk.
I actually have a bunch of that in 45 hoarded.  :th_thicon_idea:
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline DCD327

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 05:33:54 PM »
ONLY way to get CONSISTENT ammo is load your own.
Factory mass produced ammo will not yield consistent results due to the production tolerances built in.

I dont reload (yet I do plan to start) but it makes sense (to me) that you can move a larger mass at the same(or close to) velocity with out doing so.



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What makes no sense to me is you CLAIMING you know, but have NEVER done it.  :th_thicon_lol:
DO you have specific technical knowledge of ALL the umpteen ammo manufacturers tolerances?
Now combine that with all the firearm manufacturers DIFFERENT tolerances.
Add in human error,,,, 

I was talking my testing from experience,,,,

You were talking from what?  ur,,,,, umm,,,, ahh,,,,well forget it.  :facepalm:   :th_thicon_funny:
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline Shield45

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 05:40:25 PM »
ONLY way to get CONSISTENT ammo is load your own.
Factory mass produced ammo will not yield consistent results due to the production tolerances built in.

I dont reload (yet I do plan to start) but it makes sense (to me) that you can move a larger mass at the same(or close to) velocity with out doing so.



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What makes no sense to me is you CLAIMING you know, but have NEVER done it.  :th_thicon_lol:
DO you have specific technical knowledge of ALL the umpteen ammo manufacturers tolerances?
Now combine that with all the firearm manufacturers DIFFERENT tolerances.
Add in human error,,,, 

I was talking my testing from experience,,,,

You were talking from what?  ur,,,,, umm,,,, ahh,,,,well forget it.  :facepalm:   :th_thicon_funny:
Wrong
Never claimed to know
Said made sense to me
Experience with factory ammo
consistency. My FIL reloads. Makes specific powder charges once he “hits” on what performs as he wants.


Ill stand by the factory ammo will never yield consistency available with custom loads.

And physics says takes more energy to move a heavier object the same distance and speed as a lighter similar object.   

Comprehension is as important as reading.

And not reading in things that aren’t there.  All




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Offline DCD327

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Re: ..powder loads..
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2019, 06:59:22 PM »
ONLY way to get CONSISTENT ammo is load your own.
Factory mass produced ammo will not yield consistent results due to the production tolerances built in.

I dont reload (yet I do plan to start) but it makes sense (to me) that you can move a larger mass at the same(or close to) velocity with out doing so.

ONLY way to get CONSISTENT ammo is load your own.
Factory mass produced ammo will not yield consistent results due to the production tolerances built in.

I dont reload (yet I do plan to start)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What makes no sense to me is you CLAIMING you know, but have NEVER done it.  :th_thicon_lol:
DO you have specific technical knowledge of ALL the umpteen ammo manufacturers tolerances?
Now combine that with all the firearm manufacturers DIFFERENT tolerances.
Add in human error,,,, 

I was talking my testing from experience,,,,

You were talking from what?  ur,,,,, umm,,,, ahh,,,,well forget it.  :facepalm:   :th_thicon_funny:
Wrong
Never claimed to know
Said made sense to me
Experience with factory ammo
consistency. My FIL reloads. Makes specific powder charges once he “hits” on what performs as he wants.


Ill stand by the factory ammo will never yield consistency available with custom loads.

And physics says takes more energy to move a heavier object the same distance and speed as a lighter similar object.   

Comprehension is as important as reading.

And not reading in things that aren’t there.  All




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ONLY way to get CONSISTENT ammo is load your own.
Factory mass produced ammo will not yield consistent results due to the production tolerances built in.

I dont reload (yet I do plan to start)


Thats flat out a troll post ,its argumentative,, based on NOTHING .

1. Consistent factory ammo certainly does exist. (And that IS what we were talking about here,, FACTORY AMMO, not you fil's reloads. )

 But you will NEVER find out the extent of it until you start stepping out further than most people shoot. . Like ridiculous long distance ranges for whatever caliber. Pistol or rifle, it dont matter, just push it to the distance extreme.
ANY long range shooter knows that.
Ive been on the 500 yard range with reloaders. I was shooting FACTORY Winchester 150 grain silver tip boat tailed spitzer ammo in a 30-06,( did the same with a .270 win with 130 grain STBTSP. ) , and smoked the reloaders azzes.
So their so called custom tailored ammo couldnt beat  factory ammo.
While it is possible to custom tailor ammo to beat GOOD factory ammo, VERY FEW people can actually do it, while MOST only CLAIM they can.

Go buy a bench and rest, and start shooting your pistols @ 150+ yards with FACTORY ammo.
You will see exactly what Im talking about..

2. How can you even make a statement like that if you dont reload, and have no clue what all the different ammo manufacturers SPECIFIC tolerances,specifications,  or METHODS, even are.

Yes, comprehension is important,,
but so is PROOF.

And your unproven argumentative blah blah blah opinion based on nothing ,, is worth exactly nothing.

So we are done here.
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".