Author Topic: 9mm vs 9mm Luger  (Read 999 times)

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Offline Texas@Last

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9mm vs 9mm Luger
« on: December 26, 2018, 11:45:03 PM »
After I finished at the range I wanted to buy some rounds to replace what I shot.

I told the guy I wanted FMJ for range and some sig v crown hollow points.

I got home and noticed that they are all Luger 9mm.

I called him back and he said they are the same thing. I know they are not cuz of the taper.

I shoot Beretta 92FS, Custom Carry II, PX4 Storms, a Jimenez, and an AR chambered in 9mm.

Can I shoot the Lugers from those guns, and is he right, there is no difference?

Thank you so much for your help.

Offline Domineaux

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 12:11:15 AM »
The common "9mm" is indeed 9mm Luger.
Sometimes also shown as:

919
9mm NATO
919mm
9 mil
919mm NATO
9mm Parabellum
9mm Para
9mm P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 12:19:33 AM »
9 mm Parabellum, 9 mm Luger and the 9 x 19 mm are different names for the same cartridge. What you were sold will run just fine in the firearms you have listed.
The 9 x 18 Makarov, 9 mm Kurz (.380 ACP) and 9 x 23 Largo are different rounds. 


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Offline Tango

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 07:07:14 AM »
.
could be mistaken but I believe that 9mm "Luger" is a higher pressure round vs the "common" 9mm (?)

ref :  https://www.gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9mm-nato-vs-9mm-luger/

years ago it was also recommended to me to not use +P or other hi pressure ammo in the smaller pistols (LCP for instance) and not in older pistols and I can see "the why" in that thinking

my early built Sig 938 does not like (doesn't cycle reliably) 115gr ammo and after sending it back to Sig (twice) I finally spoke with one of their Smithies who admitted that the original 938 was designed around a heavier bullet (124 and 147)  - the "batards" however never printed nor told anyone about that (grrrrr) - so that's how I keep it loaded
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 12:24:47 PM »
i avoid all that corn-fuzion by keeping only firearms and ammunition
for .45 ACP here and at the outpost as far as self loaders go.  :thumbsup1:
i dun had all thuh nine milimeters i want in my short lifetime
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Offline Tango

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 01:27:08 PM »

i dun had all thuh nine milimeters i want in my short lifetime

too bad.....a P08 9mm WWII era Luger pistol is one heck of a beautiful, unique, iconic great firing pistol - you're missing out if you've not owned one (and don't plan to).....(and there's even a modern-day one being produced in .45acp & 10mm - https://lugerman.com/luger-45/)
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Offline DCD327

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 04:27:39 PM »
The common "9mm" is indeed 9mm Luger.
Sometimes also shown as:

919
9mm NATO
919mm
9 mil
919mm NATO
9mm Parabellum
9mm Para
9mm P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9719mm_Parabellum

 :thumbsup1:

CCI Blazer  ALL says 9mm luger. While many other brands say 9mm para,  or 9x19.

Ur good. I ran almost 5K of CCI Blazer 9mm luger through my 92fs, 92g, several CZ 75's, and a JR Carbine last year alone. While the Berettas say 9mm para, the Cz's say 9mm luger, and the JRC says 9 x 19..

Same Same.

Now it is my understanding, and some PLEASE correct me if Im wrong..

I believe Tango may be correct on the 9mm Nato, but I believe they have a set minimum powder charge, but 9mm nato is not over pressured or +p type any more than say factory CCI blazer brass. Ive never noticed a bit of difference in good ammo.
Now some of the generic stuff does not meet the standard minimum and is loaded down.

I think its the same  with standard Nato 5.56 and  7.62 to meet a standard minimum, but both  5.56 nato and 7.62  nato ARE LOADED TO HIGHER PRESSURES than standard 2.23 and .308. So to shoot 5.56 nato in a 2.23, its recommended you need a wylde chamber to lower the pressures.
They do not recommend , you  do not want to shoot 5.56 or 7.65 nato ammo in a 223 or 308 that is not stamped for it. 

Ive never heard of any issues with "9mm nato" stamped on it other than it has met a required standard minimum.
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Offline dred

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 07:04:32 PM »
@dcd327 ...

9mm NATO is substantially hotter than the SAAMI 9mm Spec.  It is not any combination of +'s or P's either 'cause it is not SAAMI spec'd ammo.  I can tell you it's both heavier and faster than the normal 115g 9mm.

Offline DCD327

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Re: 9mm vs 9mm Luger
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 11:03:45 PM »
@dcd327 ...

9mm NATO is substantially hotter than the SAAMI 9mm Spec.  It is not any combination of +'s or P's either 'cause it is not SAAMI spec'd ammo.  I can tell you it's both heavier and faster than the normal 115g 9mm.

Thanks Dred.  :thumbsup1:  Got me curious so I looked it up to refresh my memory. :thinker:

9mm luger standard is 34,100 .
9 x 19 para  SAAMI is 35,001 .
9mm nato maximum pressure on a 108 to 128 grain max bullet weight ,  is 36,500 .

9 x 19 para +P   SAAMI max is 38,500.

So any pistol +P rated can safely shoot 9mm nato.

9 mm NATO can be considered an overpressure variant of the 919mm Parabellum that is defined by NATO standards. The service pressure Pmax of the 9 mm NATO is rated at 252 MPa (36,500 psi) where CIP rates the 9mm Luger Pmax somewhat lower at 235 MPa (34,100 psi).

The SAAMI pressure limit for the 919mm Parabellum is set at 241.32 MPa (35,001 psi) piezo pressure.
The SAAMI pressure limit for the 919mm Parabellum +P is set at 265.45 MPa (38,500 psi)

Interesting to those that carry 9mm, but probably not so much for 9mm haters.

The round was originally designed to be lethal to 50 meters, but is still lethal at longer ranges. The 9mm cartridge combines a flat trajectory with moderate recoil. According to the 1986 book Handloading: "the modern science of wound ballistics has established beyond reasonable doubt that the 9mm cartridge is highly effective.

In 2014, the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) released a report detailing the potential combat effectiveness of the 9mm cartridge when compared to other calibers such as the .45 ACP and the .40 S&W cartridge that was specifically developed for use by the FBI. The report indicated that the new powders and more advanced bullet designs used in current 9mm defensive loads allowed for the caliber to deliver almost similar performance to other calibers, like the .45 ACP, and .40 S&W. In addition to this, the lower recoil, less wear, cheaper ammunition and higher capacity were all reasons that the report cited for the recent surge in orders of the ammunition from various police agencies. With a wider selection of officers being able to shoot handguns chambered in 919mm, many departments choose this caliber so they can standardize around a single firearm and loading, making logistics and supply easier. Due to all of these factors, law enforcement orders of 9mm ammo from all major ammunition manufacturers have spiked significantly.

The FBI report made it clear that the more consistent accuracy of 9mm in the hands of their less experienced shooters was a factor in their returning to 9mm as their standard handgun caliber. It was also made clear that the almost same effectiveness of 9mm compared to .40 S&W and .45 ACP was due to the high quality of 9mm ammunition available
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:45:38 AM by DCD327 »
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".