Author Topic: Mother daughter liquor store shootout Tulsa  (Read 433 times)

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Offline Ochotona

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Mother daughter liquor store shootout Tulsa
« on: February 25, 2018, 09:51:38 AM »
CCTV footage

OK experts, what could have been done better?

I was wondering if shooting the perp was even necessary. I understand the emotions and outrage, the need to fix our public spaces, etc., but from the narrow point of view of this goal... "get home to have pizza and beer, and sleep in your own bed tonight", did the actions taken optimize the attainment of that goal?

Once entered into, there was no going back, because the perp came back to get revenge. The ladies let the perp get far too close to them, they should have been engaging him continuously, the perp even almost wrestled a gun a way from from one of them. One of the defenders could have easily shot the other. The concept and practice of "Mai-Ai" was just non-existent, due to no training, and it almost killed both of the defenders.

First and foremost, every gunfight is still just a fight, and fights often end up on the floor. Add guns and things just get worse for the participants.
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Offline Ochotona

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Re: Mother daughter liquor store shootout Tulsa
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 09:58:12 AM »
Also seems to me the physical layout of the store... the poor security of the cashbox and cashbox attendant... pretty much invited a robbery. Not meaning to blame victims, but police departments do offer to consult to business owners on these kinds of matters, but the business owners have to be listening. They do that in Houston. Tulsa is a pretty big city, the PD should offer tips on running a safe C-store or liquor store.
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Offline Tango

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Re: Mother daughter liquor store shootout Tulsa
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 10:11:19 AM »
.
"hindsight" is great sight, isn't it (and it's not even Monday morning)

I'd bet that not a single person here could say exactly how an event such as this would come down if they were involved - even with constant training

training is good, but .....
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Mother daughter liquor store shootout Tulsa
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2018, 10:19:56 AM »
Yes, there's a lot more to this story, and we don't know how it unfolded.  2 areas of concern for me: 
1) The guns appeared to be unsecured under the counter.  Lots of things could go wrong, like the cashier walking a customer to a product on the back shelf and a kid finding the gun.  Also the bad guy came back at one point.
2) At 1:13 the daughter fires at the bad guy with her mom directly in the line of fire as there's a fight for the mom's gun.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 10:55:02 AM by TXAZ »
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Offline Gilgondorin

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Re: Mother daughter liquor store shootout Tulsa
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2018, 10:34:50 AM »
I wouldn't have relied on a .38 or a S&W .380 and only one or two shots at a distant target as in the very beginning of the shootout when he first appears to leave; Chris Bird taught to shoot until the threat stops; the moment he came around the register the first time to come check on them, he should have been met with more continuous flak from full-sized pistols than an American bomber formation.

Additionally, wielding leaving the mom out to dry while she was wrestling would also be something I'd have skipped. I doubt it was intentional, but with her struggling for her life against the guy I'd have closed the distance in the several moments he was too busy wrestling with her hanging closely to the floor and shot him at closer distance. He could have killed them both, or as someone already observed, the daughter could have accidentally killed someone she shouldn't have.