Author Topic: 9mm 115 Gr.HP  (Read 1546 times)

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Offline 308nato

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9mm 115 Gr.HP
« on: February 18, 2018, 07:39:24 PM »
Classic Arms has some 9mm JHP 115gr  made in Israel called Independence.
It comes in a 50 rd box for 14.99 so I got 2 boxes to try out.
I thought it was a good price as you pay that much for a 20 rd box.
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Offline satx78247

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 08:31:40 PM »
308nato,

Let us know how well it shoots, PLEASE.

yours, satx
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2018, 12:11:57 AM »
i have shot the Independence brand ammo in the past. never had any problems out of it. functioned perfectly, and was reasonably priced. now i did use the FMJ ammo in 9mm for practice though.

i don't think you will have any issues with it.
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2018, 08:18:35 AM »
I have shot tons of their 5.56, but that is all.

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 12:24:11 PM »
Shot some independence brand 40 and 45 FMJ all went bang.



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Offline 308nato

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 05:46:50 PM »
308nato,

Let us know how well it shoots, PLEASE.

yours, satx




When it is delivered and can get to the range will give a report on how it works.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson.

Caedite eos.Novitenim Donimus Qui Sunteius.

The new ballet of good over evil is called
The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie.

Offline 308nato

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2018, 08:04:24 PM »
Well I finally got the 9 mm I ordered a week and a half ago  this afternoon and hope to get to the range t0morrow.
Will report later on how good it is .
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson.

Caedite eos.Novitenim Donimus Qui Sunteius.

The new ballet of good over evil is called
The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie.

Offline Shipwreck

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2018, 08:13:22 PM »
Well I finally got the 9 mm I ordered a week and a half ago  this afternoon and hope to get to the range t0morrow.
Will report later on hoe good it is .

U da man!

Offline 308nato

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 07:18:02 PM »
well today I fired 50 aggravating rounds of the new Independence  9mm HP and all did not go well from the start.
This is the first time I have fired hollow points in this pistol a CZ rami with 14 rd mags.
I loaded 4 mags  ,first mag in pistol , pulled slide to load and did not go into battery and had to push on slide to seat the first round.
fired 5 rds. and same thing, 2 more and the same thing.
This went on threw 4 mags and I said the heck with it .
I never had any type of problems with FMJ so I guess my CZ just doesn't like hollow points.
The only good point with this ammo is fired very clean .
Now it may work in some other models  but not in mine.
Going to get with my daughter and test it out in some of her 9mm and see if it works in hers.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson.

Caedite eos.Novitenim Donimus Qui Sunteius.

The new ballet of good over evil is called
The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie.

Offline ArmedTexan

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 10:11:22 PM »
Im sure my browning hi power clone will eat it up!
I call my AR-15 Anne; she's pretty and likes to accessorize. My AK-47 is known as Frank, he won't stop no matter how dirty he is. Oh and when the gov't comes look'n for 'em, they be hid'n in the attic!

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 10:20:50 PM »
You would need to try other brands to know if it is the ammo or JHP in general

Online Alte Schule

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 07:57:13 AM »
Almost nothing worse than going to the range and spending 90% of your time on a problem with a firearm or ammo. :bangheadonwall:
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Offline 308nato

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 01:31:33 PM »
For now I am going to stay with FMJ and down the road try some Hornady  HP's as Joe the owner of the
range suggested.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
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Caedite eos.Novitenim Donimus Qui Sunteius.

The new ballet of good over evil is called
The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie.

Offline K-Texas

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2018, 03:12:03 PM »
well today I fired 50 aggravating rounds of the new Independence  9mm HP and all did not go well from the start.
This is the first time I have fired hollow points in this pistol a CZ rami with 14 rd mags.
I loaded 4 mags  ,first mag in pistol , pulled slide to load and did not go into battery and had to push on slide to seat the first round.
fired 5 rds. and same thing, 2 more and the same thing.
This went on threw 4 mags and I said the heck with it .
I never had any type of problems with FMJ so I guess my CZ just doesn't like hollow points.
The only good point with this ammo is fired very clean .
Now it may work in some other models  but not in mine.
Going to get with my daughter and test it out in some of her 9mm and see if it works in hers.

Apologies for posting on an older thread, but anytime you try a new load you should give it the "plunk" test. Remove the barrel from the pistol, muzzle pointed down and drop a round in the chamber. You should hear an audible "plunk." if you don't, the load may be too long for the chamber. Your malfunctions made me suspicious. Also, if the round "plunks" it should spin freely in the chamber while the case rim should be flush or just barely below the barrel hood.

I don't have any experience with the RAMI, but I do with other CZ75s and clones. I loved the P-01 I had, but it wouldn't take my longer handloads. I don't own any CZ75s in 9mm only because of that and have actually been tempted to get a Canik, to see how they're chambered.

There is also a possible danger here. Rounds that don't go completely into battery can raise pressure to potentially dangerous levels! And I'm not just picking on CZs here. The new Glock 17 & 19 gen 5s are boasting about their new "Marksman" barrels. My shooting partner has carried a G19 for years and still owns 2 Gen 2s. We got curious and did some investigating. Turns out that Glock has gone to shorter chambers with the Gen 5 9 x 19mms. Not a good thing in my book, particularly not for a handloader. The idea is that by shortening the chamber, you shorten the distance of bullet "jump" to the lands of the barrel. The much better method is to use longer loads but many gunmakers have gone to the chamber shortening route.

FMJ is typically not a problem because the curved profile of the bullet (ogive) is longer and narrower. In essence, the SAAMI spec for maximum overall cartridge length of 1.169" now only applies to RN FMJ and maybe not even with them. These are the Einsteins that are supposed to keep us safe thru standardization. If the Independence 115 gr. JHP had a bulbous looking ogive where the curved area of the bullet was mainly closer to the nose, that could have been the problem combined with the RAMIs chamber. :icon_wink:

« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 08:17:17 PM by K-Texas »
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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2018, 10:01:57 PM »
Oddly enough, I had some independence 9mm FMJ 115 not wanting to go into the cylinders on a Ruger blackhawk 357/9mm convertible.  The casing were over sized / not sized properly IMO. Tight going in, even tighter coming out.

Since there was an obvious problem, I wouldnt try it in my CZ's.

I let the guys at camp burn it up using the Blackhawk since they are practically bomb proof. .  I didnt, and wont, buy anymore.
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Offline GasGuzzler

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 05:10:35 AM »
I have some of their 5.56X45 but have not tried their 9mm. 

Offline 308nato

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 06:35:23 PM »
well today I fired 50 aggravating rounds of the new Independence  9mm HP and all did not go well from the start.
This is the first time I have fired hollow points in this pistol a CZ rami with 14 rd mags.
I loaded 4 mags  ,first mag in pistol , pulled slide to load and did not go into battery and had to push on slide to seat the first round.
fired 5 rds. and same thing, 2 more and the same thing.
This went on threw 4 mags and I said the heck with it .
I never had any type of problems with FMJ so I guess my CZ just doesn't like hollow points.
The only good point with this ammo is fired very clean .
Now it may work in some other models  but not in mine.
Going to get with my daughter and test it out in some of her 9mm and see if it works in hers.

Apologies for posting on an older thread, but anytime you try a new load you should give it the "plunk" test. Remove the barrel from the pistol, muzzle pointed down and drop a round in the chamber. You should hear an audible "plunk." if you don't, the load may be too long for the chamber. Your malfunctions made me suspicious. Also, if the round "plunks" it should spin freely in the chamber while the case rim should be flush or just barely below the barrel hood.

I don't have any experience with the RAMI, but I do with other CZ75s and clones. I loved the P-01 I had, but it wouldn't take my longer handloads. I don't own any CZ75s in 9mm only because of that and have actually been tempted to get a Canik, to see how they're chambered.

There is also a possible danger here. Rounds that don't go completely into battery can raise pressure to potentially dangerous levels! And I'm not just picking on CZs here. The new Glock 17 & 19 gen 5s are boasting about their new "Marksman" barrels. My shooting partner has carried a G19 for years and still owns 2 Gen 2s. We got curious and did some investigating. Turns out that Glock has gone to shorter chambers with the Gen 5 9 x 19mms. Not a good thing in my book, particularly not for a handloader. The idea is that by shortening the chamber, you shorten the distance of bullet "jump" to the lands of the barrel. The much better method is to use longer loads but many gunmakers have gone to the chamber shortening route.

FMJ is typically not a problem because the curved profile of the bullet (ogive) is longer and narrower. In essence, the SAAMI spec for maximum overall cartridge length of 1.169" now only applies to RN FMJ and maybe not even with them. These are the Einsteins that are supposed to keep us safe thru standardization. If the Independence 115 gr. JHP had a bulbous looking ogive where the curved area of the bullet was mainly closer to the nose, that could have been the problem combined with the RAMIs chamber. :icon_wink:






Thanks for the info on what to look for as I'am going to try out some Hornady HP's when I get the chance.
Also to me the ramp up to the chamber is  kind of steep to me and maybe that's why the rounds aren't going in properly.
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
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The new ballet of good over evil is called
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Offline Gilgondorin

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 06:50:00 PM »
I'm liking this new K-Texas fella already as he sounds like a fellow CZ connoisseur.

I'll +2 his points on the ogave of the bullet. IIRC, this is why some CZ shooters have been known to report FTF's with even flat-nosed FMJ bullets and those from Remington UMC -- I think the shape of the throat of the barrel also had something to do with it.

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 08:51:42 PM »
I'm liking this new K-Texas fella already as he sounds like a fellow CZ connoisseur.

I'll +2 his points on the ogave of the bullet. IIRC, this is why some CZ shooters have been known to report FTF's with even flat-nosed FMJ bullets and those from Remington UMC -- I think the shape of the throat of the barrel also had something to do with it.

Ive fired quite a bit of UMC remi 115 fmj in my CZ 75 's without any trouble.
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline K-Texas

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Re: 9mm 115 Gr.HP
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 03:40:26 PM »
I'm liking this new K-Texas fella already as he sounds like a fellow CZ connoisseur.

I'll +2 his points on the ogave of the bullet. IIRC, this is why some CZ shooters have been known to report FTF's with even flat-nosed FMJ bullets and those from Remington UMC -- I think the shape of the throat of the barrel also had something to do with it.

Ive fired quite a bit of UMC remi 115 fmj in my CZ 75 's without any trouble.


Most RN FMJ in 9mm has a longer/slimmer ogive. so it is more likely to run better in pistols with short chambers. What this means is that the bullet above the case-mouth tapers faster to a smaller diameter which makes them longer as well.

One thing that will help is JHP bullets that are more similar to FMJ in profile. I know we're not talking about handloads here, except in the case of Reman ammo that I'd never recommend, but for my own ammo, I try to stay with JHPs that have the slimmer/longer profile of an FMJ. Specifically, the Everglades 124 gr. JHP that's very accurate and economical. I don't load or shoot FMJ or plated because Poly-Coated bullets do all the same things at a lower price. But still, JHPs are primarily the bullets we use in 9 x 19mm. The Winchester 115 gr. JHP has a good shape as well if you can find Whitebox loads that are designated for defense and loaded with this bullet.

Hornady XTPs do not have a rounded ogive, but their truncated cone shape is usually longer and slimmer than other types of truncated cone shape JHPs like say SIERRA's. As well all know, there is no free lunch. Since the XTP does not have a rounded ogive, the transition point between the full caliber shank and the tapered nose leaves a "shoulder" that I refer to as the transition point. In some cases, the shoulder will be the first thing that comes into contact with the barrel's lands (LEADE), but that is more of an issue for handloaders trying to load them to a longer than typical length compared to commercially loaded ammo.

I've loaded thousands of XTPs in various calibers and tested them for expansion and penetration as well. They won't expand like Rangers or HSTs, but they do expand very consistently according to the velocity they are loaded to. And that's another benefit of the XTP, they can be pushed faster without concerns of the jacket separating from the bullet's lead core. The HAP bullet and loads are the same bullet but without the skives (pre-cuts) on the nose to induce expansion. Their most competitively priced ammo uses the HAP bullet in a steel case for those who don't handload. Remington 115 & 124 gr. JHPs also work well. In my CZ P-01, the maximum length the 124 gr. JHP could be seated while touching the leade was 1.127". This is what I refer to as Max Possible OACL. So, you then know that your handloads have to be shortened to establish FREE-BORE. That's the amount of distance the bullet has to "jump" to engage the rifling. In my case, I shortened my loads to 1.122" using the Remington 124 gr. JHP which is also 28.5mm. Most commercial JHP loads in 9 x 19mm are loaded shorter. Unfortunately, some of the discount ammo company's, or the reman guys don't take this into consideration for the bullets that use. If a 124 gr. JHP has a more "bulbous" ogive where most of it's closer to the bullet nose, they will have to be loaded shorter, regardless of who's loading them. If they're not, you can run into problems as the OP described.

One very good defense load that is ammune to all of this is the 124 gr. Remington Golden Saber. The shank of the bullet is referred to as the driving band. The top of the driving band gets seated flush with the case-mouth and the entire bullet above the case-mouth/driving band is smaller in diameter which prevents the nose and ogive from touching the lands. This, even though they're loaded longer at 1.145" and if you handload them you can use the same OACL. Likewise, I have loaded many Golden Sabers over the years in 9 x 19mm, .40 S&W and the .45 ACP.  :icon_wink:
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