Author Topic: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?  (Read 16485 times)

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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2020, 09:06:38 PM »
Ochotona, I'm going to venture a safe guess that you are a level headed employed Joe citizen, may own a home or other property, pay your taxes, raising a family or going to school or whatever. If you defy the 1 in 14 million odds and are involved in a purely defensive incident with a firearm in which the bad guy sustained injuries one of the first things responding law enforcement will ask you for is identification. You will be checked for outstanding wants and warrants, criminal history and previous arrests. If you come back clean and the available evidence at the scene alludes to you being justified in using deadly force the chances of being arrested right then are pretty low and the incident will be referred to the district attorney for review and any disposition. Remember District Attorneys are usually an elected position. Elected officials try and avoid the bad press that comes with arresting an obviously innocent, law abiding family man.

I'm not naive enough to believe that some law enforcement officers may disregard the evidence and conduct an arrest anyway but that's uncommon. Most LEO's are professional enough to do what's right. 

Your biggest problem may be the bad guys family suing you in civil court.

Per Texas statutes, as long as the shooting is justified and legal, the person having done the shooting is immune from civil lawsuits.

Offline Shipwreck

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2020, 09:24:26 PM »
Ochotona, I'm going to venture a safe guess that you are a level headed employed Joe citizen, may own a home or other property, pay your taxes, raising a family or going to school or whatever. If you defy the 1 in 14 million odds and are involved in a purely defensive incident with a firearm in which the bad guy sustained injuries one of the first things responding law enforcement will ask you for is identification. You will be checked for outstanding wants and warrants, criminal history and previous arrests. If you come back clean and the available evidence at the scene alludes to you being justified in using deadly force the chances of being arrested right then are pretty low and the incident will be referred to the district attorney for review and any disposition. Remember District Attorneys are usually an elected position. Elected officials try and avoid the bad press that comes with arresting an obviously innocent, law abiding family man.

I'm not naive enough to believe that some law enforcement officers may disregard the evidence and conduct an arrest anyway but that's uncommon. Most LEO's are professional enough to do what's right. 

Your biggest problem may be the bad guys family suing you in civil court.

Per Texas statutes, as long as the shooting is justified and legal, the person having done the shooting is immune from civil lawsuits.

That is what I was thinking when I read his post....

Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2020, 10:42:11 PM »
That may be true for state tort claims bbbuuutttt... If the claim is that the actor violated the deceased/injured civil rights those claims will be reviewed, depending on where it is filed, by a jurist in one of the four Texas Federal District Courts (Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Abilene) to determine if the claim has merit. No state law can deny a U.S. citizen the right to present a grievance in a Federal Court and seek damages. Claiming the actor was shot because of his/her race is the most common. 

There are attorneys that specialize in filing civil rights claims and the federal courts take these type of claims very seriously. It may be dismissed during the initial review and then again maybe not. Federal courts are quick to admonish persons filing frivolous claims but a good, and expensive, attorney knows the game and work arounds.
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Offline Axxe55

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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2020, 11:37:58 PM »
That may be true for state tort claims bbbuuutttt... If the claim is that the actor violated the deceased/injured civil rights those claims will be reviewed, depending on where it is filed, by a jurist in one of the four Texas Federal District Courts (Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Abilene) to determine if the claim has merit. No state law can deny a U.S. citizen the right to present a grievance in a Federal Court and seek damages. Claiming the actor was shot because of his/her race is the most common. 

There are attorneys that specialize in filing civil rights claims and the federal courts take these type of claims very seriously. It may be dismissed during the initial review and then again maybe not. Federal courts are quick to admonish persons filing frivolous claims but a good, and expensive, attorney knows the game and work arounds.

If a man breaks into your home, in the middle of the night, you can reasonably assume the worst from him. So therefor using deadly force to defend yourself and loved ones, would hardly be considered violating the bad actors civil rights.

So if he was injured or killed during the commision of a criminal act, HE, nor his family can sue you in civil court for damages from a justified or legal shooting.

Offline DCD327

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2020, 02:35:58 AM »

Besides a hunting application ,, protection permit carry, / conceal Carrying a sidearm is for one reason only,, to PROTECT you and your family from threats to your lives. Use it wisely.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 02:35:44 PM by DCD327 »
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2020, 03:52:50 AM »
That may be true for state tort claims bbbuuutttt... If the claim is that the actor violated the deceased/injured civil rights those claims will be reviewed, depending on where it is filed, by a jurist in one of the four Texas Federal District Courts (Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and Abilene) to determine if the claim has merit. No state law can deny a U.S. citizen the right to present a grievance in a Federal Court and seek damages. Claiming the actor was shot because of his/her race is the most common. 

There are attorneys that specialize in filing civil rights claims and the federal courts take these type of claims very seriously. It may be dismissed during the initial review and then again maybe not. Federal courts are quick to admonish persons filing frivolous claims but a good, and expensive, attorney knows the game and work arounds.

If a man breaks into your home, in the middle of the night, you can reasonably assume the worst from him. So therefor using deadly force to defend yourself and loved ones, would hardly be considered violating the bad actors civil rights.

So if he was injured or killed during the commision of a criminal act, HE, nor his family can sue you in civil court for damages from a justified or legal shooting.
Sure they can. Life itself is a protected civil liberty. If a complaint is brought before a federal court alleging someone's death was a result of bias such as the actor was of a different race, sexual orientation, whatever, by law that complaint or allegation must be considered. Whether the complaint has merit is not for you or I to decide.
Sure the complaint may be sh*t canned upon initial review or then again it may be given the green light for exculpatory evidence to be presented. Federal Judges wield immense power. If the judge decides it needs to be investigated both sides. plaintiff and defendant, have the chance to give physical and oral testimony. Once that is complete the judge will decide if a trial is necessary.
Axxe, anyone can sue you or me in District Court or Federal Court for almost anything. Whether that suit is dismissed upon initial review as frivolous is always possible but not always a given. The fact remains that the suit was filed. Disposition of the suit does not fall under the subject or plaintiffs purview. Whether the complaint has merit or is prohibited by statute will be determined by the magistrate.
This gun is liberty; hold for certain that the day when you no more have it, you will be returned to slavery.
Toussaint Louverture

Offline Shield45

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2020, 06:14:42 AM »
TXLAW shield for me
For 10.95 a month its worth it to me.
Even if I never ever need it.
Kinda like car insurance
You pay and pray
You guys so have car insurance correct? Or do you play the lotto odds there as well.




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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2020, 11:53:33 AM »
I don't want to come off as a know it all but as I have explained before I am a certified nerd when it comes to statistics and specs.
The average driver will be involved in an accident every 18 years.
If you go on a 1000 mile road trip you have something like a 1 in 80 chance of being involved in an accident.

I haven't had an auto accident in 46 years but the only one I had cost me a new car and almost killed me.
My wife has had two. One before we were married and four years ago when she rolled into a motorcycle cop at a traffic light.  :frown: No injuries.

State law and the finance companies require car insurance. I'm required by my mortgage company to have insurance on my properties and would be a fool if I didn't.

Shield, hey my man if you feel comfortable with carry insurance and it gives you peace of mind far be it for me or anyone else to say otherwise. I have an insurance policy for the key fobs on my wife's SUV. 5 bucks a month. $60 a year. New fobs are around $200 or more. My wife averages at least one lost or damaged fob a year. That policy sure gives me peace of mind.


This gun is liberty; hold for certain that the day when you no more have it, you will be returned to slavery.
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Offline Shipwreck

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2020, 12:29:15 PM »
I kinda get his point of view.

Why even carry the gun if you want to rely on stats that say you probably won't need one?

The problem is that each and very day - SOMEONE is going to have a car accident. And, someone is going to be robbed, killed, etc. We each usually carry the gun to minimize the chance that it will be us, and to be safe.

The argument that nothing will PROBABLY happen to him, so he doesn't need the insurance is no different than the argument that nothing will PROBABLY happen to him - so, he doesn't need the gun.

None of us here on this forum believe that we probably don't need a gun. I would bet most, if not all, carries a gun.

I think the better argument against the insurance is that you PROBABLY will get a horrendous lawyer, and will likely end up hiring someone else on your own if that lawyer really sucks... And, if that provided lawyer sucks, you may not realize just how bad he sucks.

Like I said - I have seen hundreds of lawyers in action over the years - And personally, I would probably only hire 3 or 4 of them. If you have never seen the provided lawyer in action - you may not know just how bad he is. Much of what he initially does won't even have you in the same room with him to see how he is doing.

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2020, 01:46:58 PM »
I kinda get his point of view.

Why even carry the gun if you want to rely on stats that say you probably won't need one?

The problem is that each and very day - SOMEONE is going to have a car accident. And, someone is going to be robbed, killed, etc. We each usually carry the gun to minimize the chance that it will be us, and to be safe.

The argument that nothing will PROBABLY happen to him, so he doesn't need the insurance is no different than the argument that nothing will PROBABLY happen to him - so, he doesn't need the gun.

None of us here on this forum believe that we probably don't need a gun. I would bet most, if not all, carries a gun.

I think the better argument against the insurance is that you PROBABLY will get a horrendous lawyer, and will likely end up hiring someone else on your own if that lawyer really sucks... And, if that provided lawyer sucks, you may not realize just how bad he sucks.

Like I said - I have seen hundreds of lawyers in action over the years - And personally, I would probably only hire 3 or 4 of them. If you have never seen the provided lawyer in action - you may not know just how bad he is. Much of what he initially does won't even have you in the same room with him to see how he is doing.

I agree Ship. The odds of ever needing a gun that is carried is very slim. The statistics bear that out. Why do we keep a fire extinguisher on hand? JIC it MIGHT be needed.

A saying I heard many years ago, still has much merit. "Better to have and not need, that to need and not have."

Offline Shield45

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2020, 06:13:46 AM »
Statistically the average American male lives to 80whatever. CV may skew that some dunno.

Statistics are numbers and numbers can be manipulated to show pretty much anything.

Statistically speaking odds are I wont need either my gun or the insurance.

However I carry the gun daily and Im in no way looking for anything in fact Im an avoider in public I dont get involved in others bs and I dont look to stir any up.

So statistically Im likely OK.

But like alot of opps it only takes that one time for it to go sideways.

I signed up for TXLAW the day I took my ccw class.

Cause like a parachute there may only be one time when you truly need it and if you dont have it you likely wont need it again.

 


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Offline DCD327

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Re: Legal Defense Insurance. Do you have it? Feedback?
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2020, 06:40:55 PM »
I live rural, am a hermit, and avoid public and gatherings when possible.

32 years of CC basically 24/7,, I've had 3 occasions. Twice it was out, once pointed at a man's chest whe. He blocked the road and approached my vehicle yelling,, once at a perps head,  once hand on it ready to come out.
2 incidents in rural backwoods. Once In a  town.

All 3 times, they beat feet and ran.

And I will say this,, ALL. 3 times, had it not been for the sidearm,, I think bad things would have happened, because all 3 incidents the perps obviously had bad Intent.
The once town incident, my wife and i were leaving our elderly inlaws at 11pm to come home. A group of guys was approaching the house when we left. They were damn near on the porch. Did they know elderly lived there? They were as surprised as i was. I stopped, my wife ran into me, and i grabbed my sidearm grip in the holster. They seen it, and ran. My wife also acted like she was trying to grab my sidearm, but said she just wanted to check and make certain I had it. It scared the shit outta her. She used to tease me about carrying saying i was paranoid. After that night,she NEVER said it again. And now does carry.

The mere presence of my CC  halted  a bad situation instantly, they ran, so I didnt have to shoot some dumbass.

So things CAN happen regardless. And from stuff that's certainly not of your own making. 

Things ARE going to happen at some point.

I keep 3 German Shepherds at home. They've stopped people from messing around my house. They seem more afraid of the dogs than the owner with a gun.  :th_thicon_lol:

If carry insurance makes you feel better,, then go with your gut. Get it.
Only you know how YOU live,, where YOU go. So that's an entirely individual decision based on the risk you deal with.

I'm not going to get it. 32 years , 3 incidents, so that's average of 1 incident per 10 years. But all 3 incidents happened in about a 5 year period. Two were work related, specifically coming home from work at 4 am, and I dont work there anymore. So?
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".