Author Topic: The New 585HE, Info-  (Read 63595 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2014, 12:50:07 AM »
In the process of checking out all bullets/slugs in 585 size caliber,
it lead to the idea of the little brother of our 585HE, a 24ga FH.
Very suitable for shotgun only deer areas, with a very effective load.
And a huge supply and variet of bullets and slugs.
Same rifled bore as our 585HE, same barrels work. And they
have big supply of barrels, so we don't wait like for 12ga FH ones.
Using brass cases they get loads like 577NE which is same bore.
And many guys like idea of 577/585 size without spending
10 grand. 650gr at 2000 and 540 gr  at 2200 fps not too bad.
And for lighter non-African dangerous game we use a variety of
lighter  58cal saboted  and lead Minie bullets as well as heavy ones..

First is picture of a Minie bullet with a seal we made from 24ga
BPI brushwad, Seal fits up inside the hollowbase of the Minies.
We make them  cutting BPI brush wads in half, without the cushion.



Next picture is of 28cal Hornady ML sabot with .452" pistol bullets
of 250 to 300 gr in them for lighter high speed load, for 24ga FH.
Nice for deer and target fun. And all these will
still shoot in 585HE also.



Next picture is idea for the 585HE Whisper subsonic load with long,
real, heavy bullets, shown with dummy bullets in the cases.
Idea came from an experimenter, Bret in MN, and with a 1600 gr
bullet at subsonic 1050 fps gives 4000 ft lbs, a huge amount
over other subsonic cases guys have made. And  can have subsonic
loads with the regular 750 gr bullets also 900gr, 1000gr, 1200gr, etc.Ed



Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2014, 04:15:24 PM »
Here is  585 FBW falling block with  Hogue Knoxx Compstock.
That stock helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed



Here is some of the barrels from McGowen, with other barrels.
Most of the McGowens profiled and few are straight blanks.
Others from another place in paper wrap are the slow twist and
others are smooth .In back are some of the cases and die sets.



Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2014, 02:28:04 AM »
Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati  with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
 to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder,  cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a  slight regression to earlier times, by  taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions,  and finding
reasonable price  rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of  600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.

Info about the power in  types of guns  normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now  using the better, heavier 3"  brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us  near  2  1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes  relatively smaller bore  shotgun, 24ga,  with  458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2014, 06:43:49 AM »
Here is picture of 585HE,  100 cases  a guy got loaded,
They are CEB solid nose bullets, and hollowpoints.
This bullet is turned solid with wide meplat or wide hollowpoint. .



Here is break action being set up for the 24ga FH. It is done by mono-blocking
in a .585"/24ga barrel. With the 3"  24ga brass case running 35,000 psi,
a  moderate load, with 440gr minie, it gets about same power
as some loads in the 458Win. Ed




Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2014, 05:24:50 PM »
Here is a different look at 585-458 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
It holds lead as well as jacketed.



Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.



I do like Enfields to put our 585 in, and one of the reasons is
they have bigger bolt lugs than most, by bigger they have more
cross section where the lug is on the bolt body. And the left lug
is longer forward so as to support the case, after the bolt face is
opened for the bigger case, as the extractor
pushes the case to the left.




Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, and with our group here, also having
 barrels, dies, cases, and  McGowen with barrels in stock,
CH4D with 585HE dies in stock,  shops with # 31 shellholders.
And later a few retail outlets setup with cases in stock...Ed .

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2014, 10:58:13 PM »
Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places  14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And in a PTRD with almost a  5 foot long barrel  can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps.  Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.



I  like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on  the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....



A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint  can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed




Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2014, 04:01:03 AM »
For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds  .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr.  A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..



Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of  .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight  1.375"  585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed


Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2015, 09:58:43 AM »
Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and  650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..



But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed




Offline Shipwreck

  • Administrator
  • Deplorable Killjoy
  • ********
  • Posts: 28457
  • 1-24-17 was LEGENDARY
    • View Profile
    • Texas Gun Forum
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2015, 10:56:24 AM »
Nice!

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2015, 10:20:50 PM »
In  Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
 here. Another pallet load of cases  coming.

Here is picture  of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.



Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed




Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2015, 10:30:28 PM »
Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...



Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.




Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed




Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2015, 01:06:42 AM »
Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun.  We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.



And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed




Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2015, 06:57:05 PM »
There is  couple 585 videos  on Swann Gunsmithing's Facebook site;

Of our 585HE in first Ruger #1,  that was done in Australia, set up

for the poster Tankhunter on the AR big bore forums. That gun killed

the first AUS buffalo by a 585HE, that I posted picture of above. You can

go direct to the page and click on the videos to watch the test firings..

https://www.facebook.com/swanbarrels/videos


Here is picture our 585HE in a Montana PH action in a MPI stock, with the

style of a CZ stock, that a guy is setting up. The stock  will be finished brown

and metal finished with a Gun Kote finish...Ed


Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2015, 01:08:57 AM »
One of the first of  modern 585 caliber wildcats, since WW2,  the 575 Miller Greiss Magnum,
was first in records in the fifties,  It was made from BMG brass shortened  to 2.70" long
and necked up from 50 cal to .585" with what looks li\ke a little sharper shoulder..

They rebated the rim quite a ways to .618" to maybe  fit 98 Mauser bolt.Used a special action.
Listed as a shooting 750gr bullet about 2400 fps. It holds about 150gr of ball powder under
a 750 gr bullet, maybe little less than 3" 50cal spotter case,  where our 585HE holds
180gr under a 750gr'.

We made one for experimenting on a full length BMG case.With rim left same as the base
and would need a BMG sized bolt and action. I'm glad to be a big bore wildcatter,
and happy to be in the company of big bore nuts, old and new. Years ago when
guys did big wildcats they took what was available, to rework, and maybe
they could have used the 3" spotter case if they could have found  couple barrels full.

But it takes a lot of work to reform cases that much, with the multiple dies,
multiple annealings, and case trimming and extreme reworking of regular rifle actions,
which is why I like our 585 case, simple and straight, any regular long bolt action,
falling block, break action, etc, a  585 good for dozen or more heavy loadings,
moderate loads, last forever..

In making our 585HE we made it a size, actually new belted size, to fit regular size bolt guns,
(not BMG actions)that didn't have to be used from a tripod, and could be put in a favorite,
of many, the Ruger #1, other falling blocks, without taking metal out of the feed trough.
 And to get the same and much more powder space as a cut back,
real short, fat, BMG case wildcatted  to 585, we made longer case and worked with guys
with a group buy to get a factory run made. We thank gun nuts for the help.

Here is picture from the great site, cartridgecollector dot net, of the M&G Mag .Ed


Offline 308nato

  • Military
  • Concealed Carry Pro
  • *****
  • Posts: 2430
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2015, 07:11:00 PM »
Thats some great looking rifles there .
Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Thomas Jefferson.

Caedite eos.Novitenim Donimus Qui Sunteius.

The new ballet of good over evil is called
The Double Tap Center Mass Boogie.

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2015, 12:51:20 AM »
Yes we like the looks of big bore, big action guns also.
The different guys are building nice ones from singleshots,
to bolt actions, to  break actions. Ed

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2015, 01:29:20 AM »
Probably  first 375 caliber cartridge made from  585HE necked down,  the 375 Warlord.

Guy did a real nice job, with what looks similiar to a Weatherby style shoulder.

Kinda outdoes Weatherby & Cheytac. We have cases with no headstamps for wildcatters.

First notice of the case  sent to me  today off of a guys facebook.





Another fellow is planning on shortening the 585HE  to maybe 2.4",  for use Marlins and Henrys,

and other leverguns, redoing their 45-70s. With the belt they will have good headspace control.

Without a rim that takes up space in a levergun action, say like our rimmed 24ga FH, a 585 bore,

but which is perfect with that rim for break actions like our 24ga FH in a Magtech...Ed


Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2015, 08:59:11 PM »
Here is picture of  375 Warlord next to our 585 case he made it from.
He is going to make couple later  necked down to 416, and 458.
There is another guy working on doing one necked down to 357 wildcat.



Here is a picture of our poster  Biebs on AR,  585 HE,  in a MPI stock.
He used a big Enfield action, with a  fancy jeweled bolt.



We found couple other big actions for our 585, that can even feed really
long overall length loaded cases,  like 4.5" long or more, if you are
using long pointed bullets for real long range target and hunting work.
One is Lawton 8000 Cheytac action, and the other is  Stiller Cheytac actions
made similiar, justa  newer version. Both actions come in  1.45" diameter
 and a 1.60" diameter recievers. 

And Vestals Gunsmithing in Virginia does great work, decent prices, has 
these actions and will build you fancy 585 HEs. .. He has, working with
another guys mag box setup, setup an extra long, good working, single
stack, center feed, magazine..He has our 585 HE reamer on hand, we have
barrels, cases, and reloading dies..Ed



Offline Shipwreck

  • Administrator
  • Deplorable Killjoy
  • ********
  • Posts: 28457
  • 1-24-17 was LEGENDARY
    • View Profile
    • Texas Gun Forum
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2015, 09:01:57 PM »
Pretty cool!

Offline hubel585

  • Can Tell a Magazine From a Clip
  • *
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: The New 585HE, Info-
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2015, 02:14:03 AM »
Here is couple different setups our guys checking for our 585HE
in a long, Lawton Cheytac action. First  laminated  thumbhole stock.
Second in a Hogue Compstock. The action can mount a scope rail
like shown on the table in 1st picture or a receiver sight in 2nd picture.
The scope rail is a piccatiny,. if you need long range work.





The stocks used were wide ones for REM long actions, just add recoil
block ahead of recoil inleting  for the longer action, drill new screw hole
Open the stock forward to original bolt hole for longer cases and mag.

About Enfields for our case, one of my favorites, Some don't like the
sporterizing, welding  bottom metal straight. Many think straightening
is a huge job needing special jigs, etc, Not really, just use one for a jig
with a bolt, to weld on the straight extension, Do top weld, then cut old
extension that is under off with a thin cutting wheel, then weld bottom.
When we bolt the short piece on the one we are straightening, we grind
the short slant off so the added piece lays on there flat.
The one you cut off can be used as the top extension for the next one!!!
Just keep on building...Ed