Author Topic: Hunting Ethics?  (Read 1028 times)

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Offline Axxe55

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Hunting Ethics?
« on: March 24, 2019, 05:23:07 PM »
Reading a thread on another forum, the topic of the thread was about whether it was proper and ethical to take game animals on your own land, out of season, and without a permit or tag. I was just kind of floored at how many people condoned such practices, and their reasoning or logic was, that if it was on their land, it belonged to them.

Now from the way I was brought up, that is poaching, and last I remember, poaching is against the law. Some even went as far to say, what the game wardens don't know, won't hurt them. Several even stated, just don't get caught.

Some even used the excuse it was used as meat to feed their families. Seriously? In the year 2019, a person is trying to justify poaching, by trying to pass off an excuse to feed their family? Sorry, but that ain't exactly a convincing excuse in my book.

Am I alone in thinking the way I do about this?
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2019, 05:46:54 PM »
Aren't the exotic ranches with African animals that have private exotic hunts exempt from state hunting licenses?

I don't have a problem with that.
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2019, 07:56:23 PM »
In my opinion, humble that it is, canned or "high fence" hunts, no matter what type of animal, except feral pigs, is not hunting. I read an article the other day where someone paid a large amount of money to travel to Africa and legally kill a lion. He found his lion, sleeping, and filled out his tag. Legal? Yes. Ethical? In my opinion no.
One of the reasons the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department was created was to protect state wildlife, their habitat and enforce gaming laws. You may not agree with all the laws enacted by this state (I don't) but the law is, quite frankly, the law. I drive a vehicle that has 450 horse power. Every time I get on the highway or interstate it's 5-10 miles over the speed limit. Ethical. No. Fun? Yes. The thing is I may get a $200 fine but my vehicle won't be impounded. But i'm willing to take that chance and haven't had a speeding ticket in over twenty years. With a violation of a gaming law, depending on circumstances, the state can make you forfeit, on the spot, your firearm(s), vehicle and any other tool you used to commit the violation. Plus you have the fun of paying a steep fine usually beginning at $3,000. You don't get your confiscated property returned.
That being said it sure would be tempting to nail a big buck that presents itself on your property out of season. That circumstance has never presented itself to me although I did nail a nice buck with my '67 Buick but that doesn't count.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2019, 11:13:25 PM by Alte Schule »
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2019, 09:39:52 PM »
One of the .50 guys I shoot with took a lion in Africa with a spear.
Yea.  That’s ethical (and ballsey) hunting IMHO.
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Offline DCD327

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2019, 09:02:52 AM »
I think ALOT of hunters have different opinions on whats "ethical hunting", and also different opinions on WHAT is even considered "hunting".

Now the two have been blurred together,, and its not doing old school "ethical hunters" any favors.
SO here is MY opinion on the matter. And some might agree, others it will set their hair on fire.  :scream3:

I do NOT thinks it is ethical to BAIT animals in with feeders.

IMO, thats just a way to cheat from people that have no clue how to actually HUNT in the 1st place and helps them kill animals they lack the patience or  skills to get.

Same with canned high fence hunts.

To me,, thats akin to me walking across the field and shooting the neighbors fenced in dairy cow.
IMO, thats nothing even resembling hunting. Its shooting basically tame animals. 99% of the time on a feeder they have been trained to go to. IMO, its ridiculous to even compare that to "hunting".

ALOT of these exotic animals that idiots have been allowed to be dragged into OUR country for the sake of a rich man having a pet, or shooting animals in a fence, have so often backfired on EVERYONE else.
( russain wild boars as a classic example. Look at the pig problem in Texas. or pythons as pets in florida)

These exotic animals ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS EVENTUALLY escape their captivity and then raise complete havoc with OUR native wildlife and environment.

So I dont think ANY exotic animals, no matter how many excuses are made, should be allowed to be imported into the USA.

I dont think hunting in a fence should even be considered "hunting" let alone debating the ethics of it.
Its illegal in most states to even intentionally fence in native wildlife for the purpose of killing it,, so selling tags for a fenced in area SHOULD be illegal if native wildlife is even hunted in the fence.
That alone should make it at least  illegal.

Thats paying money to go shoot an animal in a fence. How is that even "hunting" in the 1st place ? 

Not to mention the foreign diseases they bring and infect our native wildlife with. 

In my 46 years of HUNTING, where I left the house on foot at daylight in a blowing snowstorm, and WALKED 4 to 5 miles from the house. Spent ALL day, daylight til dark out in the cold, freezing my buns off, trying to find then stalk a deer to shoot,, to then have to drag clean back home, was the good old days when "HUNTING" was actually hunting.
Part of my hard azz "opinion" is based on the fact, as a life long old school hunter,, my hunting skills are so good its actually easy for me to go out on foot, spend a few hours in the woods, and its EASY for ME to find, stalk and kill a deer. SKILLS that took YEARS to learn and aquire, by spending 1000's of hours in the woods.

So I just cant understand WHY people feel they need to CHEAT so bad. In other words, they want it quick, they want it easy, and they want it NOW. Thats NOT hunting and thats NOT how hunting works.

So over the years these new breed of people who want to pretend they are hunting is an absolute joke to me.

PA has pretty strict laws about "baiting" animals. And I see guys doing it everyday.

They have used every dirty trick in the book to try and kill something that they normally would not stand a snowballs chance in hell of ever even seeing. They have no stalking, tracking, sneaking, or hunting skills, no patience, and lack any morals. All because they dont have any "ethics", and dont know what "hunting" is in the first place.

Seeing ted nugent sitting on his 8ft high tripod stand, shooting a TAME deer that was eating at the feeder underneath him,, while he was talking, filming, and the deer could care less about the guys 10 feet away because he ate there 100 times before, just makes me sick. And this moron makes a tv show about HUNTING ?  :bangheadonwall:  Id personally like to slap him right across the face.

IMO, The word "ethics" and "hunting" can hardly be used in the SAME sentence anymore.
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2019, 09:29:52 AM »
Another one I caught a lot of flack for several years ago, on another forum, a member posted on thread about this father that was on Facebook spouting off how proud of his 13 year old daughter making something like 800 yard shot on a deer with a 243, and killing it. He was talking about how great a shot it was and how great a hunter his daughter was. Blah, blah, blah, blah, and on and on. Quite a few other members were throwing out congrats and all the rest of the hoopla and such.

What caught me the flack was that I it was just pure luck she killed that deer and nothing at at to do with hunting, or ethics. I also told the father he should be ashamed of himself for teaching his daughter such hunting practices and I also told him, that he was very poor excuse as a teacher of hunting for his daughter, and well as being a very poor example of a father in the first place. Yep, I got lots of hate mail for that one!

A couple even questioned why I thought it was just luck and not skill and just why did I think such a shot was unethical. Seriously? They couldn't figure this out for themselves? Well, lets break it down. A 13 year old girl, makes an 800 yard shot on a deer with a 243. So how much skill does a 13 year old have with shooting to make such a shot even on at a target at 800 yards, much less shooting a deer? A 243? Gee, just look at the ballistics of the 243. It's sure not a made for such distances on deer sized game, and surely not at 800 yards. And what idiot calls shooting a deer at 800 yards hunting to begin with? I sure don't. Too many variables at such a distance to ensure a clean and ethical kill. If that deer takes one step even after the trigger is pulled, it would more than likely mean a miss, or a wounded deer. I'm sorry, I don't consider that responsible or ethical hunting from the way I was taught.
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Offline DCD327

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2019, 09:50:38 AM »
800 yards with a .243,, ummm, :thinker:  yeah,,,, :th_nuts: 


But I seriously doubt she actually did that anyway. Sounds like dear ole dad may have
s  t  r  e  t  c  h  e  d   it  a   tic  ,  and  turned FEET into Yards.  :th_thicon_funny:

We had a guy at work claiming his daddy shot alot of  Whitetail deer @ 1200 yards with a 6.5.  :th_thicon_lol:  Ummm,,,, OK.. GOOD LUCK sellin that.  :th_thicon_idea:   :th_thicon_funny:
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline TXAZ

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2019, 12:09:48 PM »
800 yards with a .243,, ummm, :thinker:  yeah,,,, :th_nuts: 


But I seriously doubt she actually did that anyway. Sounds like dear ole dad may have
s  t  r  e  t  c  h  e  d   it  a   tic  ,  and  turned FEET into Yards.  :th_thicon_funny:

We had a guy at work claiming his daddy shot alot of  Whitetail deer @ 1200 yards with a 6.5.  :th_thicon_lol:  Ummm,,,, OK.. GOOD LUCK sellin that.  :th_thicon_idea:   :th_thicon_funny:
There's always the lucky shot, but ...
I''d call BS on both.  More likely they don't have a grasp on estimating distances. 

I"m not a long range wizard but have a fair amount of on-target time at 600 & 1,000 yards, and at 1200+ when I can. Even with a really good scope (like the one Alte Schulte wants me to will to him  :scream3:  ) the sight picture at 1200 is reeeeeel small.   And 6.5 and .243 bullets get pushed around by the wind quite a bit.   

Lucky shot by the teenager, unlikely / maybe (and I'm sure she didn't pack it out).  Total BS on .243.  that round has likely gone unstable / subsonic at that range.
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Offline Alte Schule

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2019, 12:28:25 PM »
800 yards? That's Carlos territory there. Below is the average drop of a .243 out to 400 Yards.



I realize that bullet grain, manufacturer, etc plays a big part in trajectory but 800 yards is an almost impossible shot unless you are skilled marksman so I call BS. But like TXAZ said you can always get lucky.
Many, many years ago I did a quick draw with a four inch S&W model 10 from a cowboy holster and hit a soda can about 50, 60 feet away sending it flying in the air. Pure dee luck but it impressed my new wife.
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2019, 01:37:24 PM »
I think all of you are getting pretty much the same impression I was! Either the guy was fudging the truth a bit, or it was simply just a lucky shot. I'm not buying a 13 year old girl has that level of skill and experience shooting, much less hunting, to make such a shot in the first place.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2019, 01:00:25 PM »
i'll chime in and say that there are a lot of areas these days
where you just can't walk around like folks did years back or
still do in other states and stalk hunt for deer. in some areas
they're already wary and can stay out of range from you, or
that walking around just isn't safe to do because of other hunters.

just me, i hunt how i want with what i want and do it ethically
and legally, and extend that same courtesy to others. there's
a lot of things that folks do these days that i wouldn't do, but
that's them and not me.
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Offline TXAZ

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2019, 02:55:30 PM »
...

just me, i hunt how i want with what i want and do it ethically
and legally, and extend that same courtesy to others.
+1

One problem is a fair number of new "hunters" go spend $500-$1,000 at Cabela's, then head out by themselves or an group of newbys, with a hunting license but little knowledge of reality, etiquette or safe practices, particularly in how to determine what prey actually looks like (vs. detected movement in brush or trees.

Another reason I don't hunt anymore:  There' a library a few miles from here named after a really good guy who was fatally mistaken for a deer.
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Offline Ranger99

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2019, 01:37:47 PM »
just me- i'd say the biggest problem these days is the
vast number of "hunting" shows out these days, plus
all the pure dee male bovine excrement on yoo floob
that gets taken for gospel by the uninitiated.


but then, since i can't do anything about any of it, i
just try to steer clear of all those that make the "hail
mary" shots and "sound " shots, and ask them to steer
clear of me.
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2019, 02:00:46 PM »
just me- i'd say the biggest problem these days is the
vast number of "hunting" shows out these days, plus
all the pure dee male bovine excrement on yoo floob
that gets taken for gospel by the uninitiated.


but then, since i can't do anything about any of it, i
just try to steer clear of all those that make the "hail
mary" shots and "sound " shots, and ask them to steer
clear of me.

The vast majority of the so-called hunting shows are a joke. Many times they are simply "canned" hunts, with game that is essentially trapped by high fences that enable just about anyone to be able to shoot the animal.

Personally, I refuse to watch them.
Misguided Miscreant!
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Remember the Alamo.
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Offline RaySendero

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2019, 02:29:54 PM »


The vast majority of the so-called hunting shows are a joke. Many times they are simply "canned" hunts, with game that is essentially trapped by high fences that enable just about anyone to be able to shoot the animal.

Personally, I refuse to watch them.


Axxe,
I like Tracks Across Africa.
Even like some of the commercials.
Try it if you haven't seen this hunting show.
Ray

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Hunting Ethics?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2019, 01:47:53 PM »


The vast majority of the so-called hunting shows are a joke. Many times they are simply "canned" hunts, with game that is essentially trapped by high fences that enable just about anyone to be able to shoot the animal.

Personally, I refuse to watch them.


Axxe,
I like Tracks Across Africa.
Even like some of the commercials.
Try it if you haven't seen this hunting show.

Never heard of that program. What channel does it usually come on?
Misguided Miscreant!
North of Hell, and South of Heaven. Texas, by God!
"It is far better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees."
Remember the Alamo.
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"Go ahead, make my day." Dirty Harry. (Carries a 44 Magnum. Nuf said.)

Offline TXAZ

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