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21
Ammunition / Re: mystrery 8mm ammo
« Last post by Gilgondorin on February 19, 2019, 05:26:13 PM »
Beware the Turkish surplus 8MM. You'll recognize it by the head stamp, which features the star and crescent moon of Islam:

http://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25962&d=1313445324

https://giga.joesalter.com/34608/34608-04.jpg

It's some of the crappiest ammo I've ever seen in any caliber of any gun I've ever shot; the pre-war and wartime production ammo is without a doubt the worst.

It shoots pretty dirty; the added fouling seems to come from the inordinately high amount of smoke for a smokeless powder it generates. The smoke also smells kinda bad compared to other powders when it burns too.

The 'metal' used to create the cases is unlike anything else I've ever seen -- I removed some from the cheap cloth bandoleers they had been stored in likely since they first left the factory. The cases turned from the usual brassy shine to a sickly looking tan color within an hour or so; by the end of the next day, some of the most-handled ones had oxidized enough to form a weird, oldish-looking patina.

Whatever soup can metal they used to make the cartridges is also very soft, and extremely brittle -- if you find any surplus Turk mixed in with your lot, I would advise checking to see if the cases themselves will safely make it through the firing process; of the 770 rounds I bought, about 50-60 of them had to be discarded because I noticed the bullet caused the necks of the cases to crack just with the application of lateral finger pressure. Grasp the slug with your fingers, and try and wiggle it around; it shouldn't take much to crack the neck of a faulty or improperly heat treated case, and in one instance I was able to make the case split to the bottle neck. Additionally, verify all the primers are seated to the correct depth.

The assembly process quality control was nonexistent. While you are doing the crack test, you may also find that some of the neck crimps were so light that although the case neck may not crack, you still will be able to push the bullet into the case or pull/wiggle it completely free just with finger pressure alone.

Finally, although all old surplus ammo is corrosive, be extra careful to clean your gun according to corrosive ammo best practices to keep this crap from turning a good mirror bore into a sewer pipe from the 1890's.

It's usually much cheaper than most other types of ammo, and for good reason.
22
Rifles & Shotguns / Re: 1903a4 questions
« Last post by TXAZ on February 19, 2019, 03:48:05 PM »
^^^^^^^That sir was impressive and informative!
Get well soon.
23
Rifles & Shotguns / Re: 1903a4 questions
« Last post by DCD327 on February 19, 2019, 12:52:12 PM »
SPOILER ALERT, I wrote a book. Alot of its blah blah blah, But Im home sick in bed with heart trouble and nothing much else to do. So, feel free to read it, or not. 

I know of no Arsenal rebuilds on 1903's after WW2. Not saying there were not any, I just have never heard of it.
However, US Marine armorers did their own 03 rebuilds clean up to Vietnam, since they still had 03's. As Marines do, They worked with what they had.  :thumbsup1:


ANY rifle I ever seen that was a true Arsenal rebuild had the stock inspection stamps/aka/rack stamps, on them. They did a big batch of WW1 rebuilds from 1929 to 1933. You will see alot of early 1903 rifles RIA's and Springfield manufactured  with barrels dated 29-33 since they were shot out from steel jackets in WW1. I have 2 of those.

My Rock Island Arsenal build is under serial 325K, so its a 1st batch built in 1906. But the barrel is dated 1933 when it was arsenal rebuilt. Everything is correct. and it has what appears to be dried blood around the bayonet lug.  :afraid4: :thinker:. I believe it was no doubt used in WW1 and rebuilt in 1933, and possibly also used in WW2.  Ive often wondered how many of the Kaisers boys that rifle sent to Vahalla.

My Dad has a Springfield built, 600K serial that my Grandpap carried in WW2. I know it sent Germans to Vahalla. It is the older Mark 1, A1 machined type rifle. Pap said he carried it simply because it was deadly accurate. He was a tank driver, so he didnt use hand weapons too much. He also carried a 45 and a P38 luger.  Sadly, my Dad in the mid 1960's  sporterized it, and all the original stock parts dissapeared. Back then, sportorizing an 03 or a mauser and installing a Douglas barrel was a big thing. Unfortunately, now its just Paps 30-06 from WW2. The german 98 Mauser that was brought home was sporterized by my Uncle. I still have it. Im glad he did it in 270 win. BOTH are tack drivers. Both are still used for deer hunting.
 
But for WW2, I dont ever remember seeing any numbers on it, or reading where they did a program rebuilding 03's for WW2. Im sure they probably did, but it would have been in early 42 after pearl harbor. And Ive never knowingly seen one. So the numbers, if any, are probably pretty small.
I read  in late 1942/early 1943 they supposedly built about 2000 sniper rifles for the Marines in the Pacific, done in  a hurry when Jap snipers were such a problem. But they were NOT the stamped parts type 03A3 or 03A4 with stamped magazine plates. They were built out of older type 03 machined parts rifles from RIA or Springfield. . Ive also read most were battle destroyed and extremely rare. Remington museum actually emailed me about it about 10 years ago.
 I believe those are the type we see the marines in the pacific pictures using that had the big long scopes on them with the front scope mount bolted right into the wooden hand guard. Whatever of these survived WW2 were also used again in Korea by marines. So they are a rare rare bird as well.
Reminton also had a large order, Ive been told about 2000 and 3000 - 1903A4's ordered to be built for WW2 in late 1944. They were sending the rifles to a company in Philly to have the stocks fitted. At wars end in mid 45, remington supposedly owed Sedgley money and didnt pay. So sedgley was supposedly selling these rifles out the back door. When the Arsenal found out, they went to both remington and sedgley, seized the remaining rifles and destroyed them. I believe I have one of these rifles and its like a brand new unissued 03A4, dated aug 44, 6.5 million serial, has the correct barrel length with the barrel stamp out on the end. So obviously no front sight was ever intended to be fitted.
 
I also have what appears to be an unissued 1903A3 Smith Corona. everything on it is 100% correct, but it has no stock stamps. I bought it for $300 years ago, a guy had it hid in his kitchen wall, behind drywall with several boxes of WW2 military ammo. He said His Dad had put it there. He told me about it one day and I offered to buy it,, IF, and I said IF,  it was actually there. A couple weeks later he walked into work with it. Still covered in cosmoline and not a mark on it. Popular Mechanics and Outdoor Life magazines were selling left over STOCK  1903'A3's right outta their magazines in the 1950's for like $35. I believe my Smith Corona is one of these. ( the NRA was also selling them for a time, their version had a Lyman peep sight which required milling of the reciever and stock wood. ) 
Oddley enough, Smith Corona built the least number of 03A3's, but they are also worth the least to collectors,, which makes NO sense to me.
Remington built a couple million, Smith Corona only built about 350,000.
So I just dont see the reasoning behind the value. I know I have the only all original Smith Corona Ive ever actually seen.
I did see 2 in an LGS years back, and they wanted top dollar, like $1k. but they had a bunch of "R" stamped parts, which is not correct. The actions felt like they were full of sand, so the bolts obviously were not the correct one or fitted. They were Parts built rifles. And they sold them too. Sucker born every minute. :facepalm:

But it matters not to me what either my A4 or the SC A3 is worth.. That Smith Corona is already designated as an inheritance to my favorite nephew who is a gun loving/hunting country boy.
The remi A4 goes to my son.
Ive also shot both of these rifles. BOTh are  exceptional tack drivers. I even took the A4 deer hunting one DRY day and shot a nice 8 point with it. Just so I could say I did I guess. But its a safe queen pretty much.
My other 03's are really good on accuracy, just not what Id call exceptional. But still way better than most newer built rifle in 30-06.
I used to shoot them 500 plus yards all the time, but that has tapered of the past few years.

As all can see, When I get to talking about 1903's, I cant stop. I wrote a book.  Give a mod something to read today. HOPEFULLY, he finds it slightly interesting.  :P :th_thicon_funny: I love these old rifles.
So I think I'll go get me a nice hot cup of "shut the hell up" now.   :th
24
Rifles & Shotguns / Re: 1903a4 questions
« Last post by DCD327 on February 18, 2019, 10:33:07 PM »
I seen (4) 1903 A4's on armslist.

No way Id buy any of the 4 that I viewed  sight unseen without actually handleing and inspecting, with my books in my hand. All 4 had WRONG parts and issues that screamed clone, and 2 were admitted clones. Without Verifying ALL the parts had the correct stamps. See what the stock stamps are, etc. I would not buy.

I also noticed that NONE of the 4 rifles sellers made any attempt to show the stock/rack stamps, serials, or barrel stamps. . Thats kinda a big thing to serious 1903 collectors.  :thinker:
25
Rifles & Shotguns / Re: 1903a4 questions
« Last post by DCD327 on February 18, 2019, 10:17:40 PM »
Sounds like someone tried to make a clone.
No rack markings or inspection markings on the stock tells me it was a replacement blank. Those can still be found and bought.

The other issue would be WHAT TYPE of stock is it. There were alot of 1/2 scant they called them. The pistol grip was very slight and rounded off. Those were not really used as a combat issue stock.

And original 1903 A4 is a RARE RARE thing.  There is really not to many floating around.
While your link dont work, so I cant see it,, I seriously doubt thats what this person has from your description.
I  would really like to see the pictures.
But if it dont seem right, it probably is not.

Ive seen many 1903 clones people tried to put together and sell as an original A4.
When in fact they were heinz 57 parts rifles. Worth no more than the actual parts that were on them.
When I go to look at one, I get my 1903 books out. ( which I just looked for and cant seem to find atm)
The serial number would tell ya WHAT it is supposed to be. Thats the easiest route.

Also remember that there is a company in PA  now building new 1903' clones. Ive seen and examined 2. They are pure shit.  The real problem now is, that makes what used to be rare and hard to find parts like stock bands, stocks, etc, available now. So clones and parts rifles are common. Way more common than an original.
Beware. Good luck.
26
Tech Zone / Re: Bought a new Chromebox yesterday
« Last post by Shipwreck on February 18, 2019, 08:32:57 PM »
I am liking that I bought a USB-c to HDMI converter dongle, and now I can use my TV as a second monitor on the Chromebox. Pretty cool :)

I actually picked up my Windows laptop today. Other than Turbotax (which I just did last week), I think I can do everything I need to on the Chromebox.

It did take a little while to get used to it and find solutions to ways to do things that one is familiar with on a Windows 10 PC. But, I found solutions to every issue once I looked.
27
Rifles & Shotguns / Re: 1903a4 questions
« Last post by Gilgondorin on February 18, 2019, 07:50:08 PM »
The link you posted seems to have broken itself and is non-functional.

I would recommend you go ask somebody on 7.62x54r.net forums this question -- they have a dedicated sub-forum for this type and era of weapon, and many people there that are extremely experienced with the historical nuances of whatever it is you're looking at.

...But first, as I said, fix the link or you're S.O.L.
28
Ammunition / Re: mystrery 8mm ammo
« Last post by TXAZ on February 18, 2019, 07:39:27 PM »
 :this_thread_is_worthless_with

I think we need pictures.
29
Ammunition / mystrery 8mm ammo
« Last post by JAR on February 18, 2019, 07:37:30 PM »
I just got a totally mixed bag of 120 rounds of 8mm "Mauser" ammo. It's all military, mixed head stamps, and old. 24 of the rounds are very different from the rest. The bullets, themselves are silver, like the Swiss cupro-nickle jacket rounds I have, but they are magnetic. The head stamp is simple, but curious. The rest of the ammo looks quite normal, and although I have not figured out who made them (that is coming later), these totally intrigued me. What do you think?
30
Rifles & Shotguns / 1903a4 questions
« Last post by JAR on February 18, 2019, 07:25:17 PM »
Before I drive across town to look at a rifle I was hoping to get some opinions on the add. I know there are not enough pictures on the listing to make a true determination, but a few things in the description make my spidey sense tingle.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/747727...i-sniper-rifle

my (limited) understanding is Weaver M8 marked scopes were not used on the 03-a4. The knobs look like the commercial smooth twisting and screw down locking type. Also a stock with no markings sounds at best a wartime replacement, not an original stock. If the rifle fell into the Z marked SN group shouldn’t the scope be a m73b1?

my feeling is the rifle is at best a true 1903a4 receiver with a replacement stock and commercial scope and at worse an all out fake. Am I off base here?
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