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GUNS & ACCESSORIES => Rifles & Shotguns => Topic started by: TXAZ on September 25, 2017, 09:59:05 PM

Title: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: TXAZ on September 25, 2017, 09:59:05 PM
Just wondering, saw an interesting .338 for sale that caught my interest.  Wondering how much kick it has, this one weighs 14 lbs.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: satx78247 on September 26, 2017, 12:43:01 AM
TXAZ,

TOO MUCH is the correct answer, imVho.

yours, satx
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: Ricochet on September 26, 2017, 09:05:39 AM
Mine has the Accuracy International Chassis System and feels like my .300 Win mag.  Opinions do very.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: satx78247 on September 26, 2017, 09:10:48 AM
Ricochet,

Personally, I see little reason for a .300 Win Mag or the .338 Lapua for my purposes.
(The "old school"  9.3x62mm with the 286 JHP/solid is more than enough gun to humanely take any game animal on Planet Earth.)

yours, satx
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: Ricochet on September 26, 2017, 09:22:06 AM
Neither one is for any type of game.  I just like to see how close I can miss a target from a long way off.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: satx78247 on September 26, 2017, 09:30:37 AM
Ricochet,

I have little or no use for any long range target rifle, as I'm a hunter & seldom "punch paper" except to periodically "re-sight-in" my hunting rifles.

yours, satx

Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: TXAZ on September 26, 2017, 11:37:20 AM
I'm not a hunter, just a paper puncher.  But I really like the 600+ yard shots.
Got to play on a timed course with 600 yard to a mile targets and did well until I ran out of time at 1530 yards.

Just looking at other long range options.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: satx78247 on September 26, 2017, 11:46:23 AM
TXAZ,

Differing opinions is what makes horseraces.

yours, satx
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: Tarosean on September 26, 2017, 12:07:24 PM
I'm not a hunter, just a paper puncher.  But I really like the 600+ yard shots.
Got to play on a timed course with 600 yard to a mile targets and did well until I ran out of time at 1530 yards.

Just looking at other long range options.

Dont own one and never will.

you can do that a lot cheaper than 338LM.. I believe it cost more to shoot than your 50BMG and your not getting much more performance than 7mmMag or 7mmRUM.. 7RUM has a shorter barrel life but will match 338LM remaining Sub Sonic to 1700m
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: K-Texas on January 04, 2018, 02:24:40 PM
Out to 1000 yards, the 6.5 CM is getting a lot of attention. If you don't have a short-action requirement, 6.5 x 284 Norma has more range. There are also some upcoming 6.5mms based on 7mm and .300 WSM cases. Ballistically, .264" have the highest ballistic coefficients and one of the reasons they've become so popular. But also keep in mind that several of these cartridges that are powder hungry in relation to bullet diameter (overbored) in combination with pressure that can go up to 65,000 PSI will be harder on barrels.

You probably know this if you've read the book American Sniper, but that personal best, and maybe the best recorded sniper kill in history, made by Chris Kyle was with the .336 Lapua. I understand the nostalgia aspect.

Didn't hurt that Chris Kyle was taught to hunt by his dad with a .30-06 which really is a high level of recoil for beginners and even experienced shooters. Chris Kyle was certainly one-of-a-kind with seemingly no aversion to recoil when he had someone in his sights. Unless someone is really capable of disregarding recoil, the .338 Lapua is going to be a serious challenge for long range shooting.

Now the Canadians claim that his record was broken by one of their snipers. I have yet to hear how much gadgetry was involved but his weapon was a .50 BMG rifle where we know that a good number of recoil reducing features are incorporated for that longer distance capability. I'd be more interested in knowing what the Canuck could do with a conventional rifle with heavy recoil using nothing but a laser rangefinder?  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: TXAZ on January 04, 2018, 03:00:09 PM

Now the Canadians claim that his record was broken by one of their snipers. I have yet to hear how much gadgetry was involved but his weapon was a .50 BMG rifle where we know that a good number of recoil reducing features are incorporated for that longer distance capability. I'd be more interested in knowing what the Canuck could do with a conventional rifle with heavy recoil using nothing but a laser rangefinder?  :icon_wink:

I heard from a US Govt. guy :) that the Canadian sniper took 4 shots @ 3,871 yards using a stock MacMillian Tac-50, using 750gr Hornaday Match (which I personally know is one hellova accurate round) for a .50 BMG.  He had a spotter, I don't know what other equipment but expect there was a laser range finder and wind meter.

According to my ballistic calculator, the round would have still been barely supersonic, and dropping at about 20 degrees. 

(Note to self:  Don't piss off Canadian's with .50's)
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: K-Texas on January 04, 2018, 07:14:19 PM
Power Factor is a pretty simple means of determining recoil short of rifle weight and powder charge. Looking at Nosler data for the 6.5 x 284 we see that with a 140 gr  bullet. up to 2953 FPS is realistic and the Accu-Bond Long Range has a BC of .719 that we'll compare to .338 Lapua Magnum. But first, let's look at recoil. 2953 x 140 / 1000 = 413 PF that most should be able to master and pretty close to the .270 WIN. Just for grins we'll assume same rifle weight.

Going up the scale, since I mentioned it, the .30-06 data shows a max load at 3002 FPS with a 165 gr. Bullet where the Highest BC is .503. PF/recoil would be 495 and a pretty significant jump higher.

Not all snipers can master the .300 WIN Mag where a 200 gr. bullet can achieve 2972 FPS with the highest BC listed at .588. PF/recoil would be 594. I'm simply trying to match velocity of these bullets calibers where in this case a 190 gr. Match Boat-tail might be preferred. That 413 for the 6.5 x 284 looks kinda wimpy at this point.

Now wee see that the .338 Lapua is capable of 2923 FPS with a 265 gr. bullet where highest BC is .778 with PF/recoil at 776.

What we see here is that it essentially takes a .338" bullet at 265 grs. to surpass the BC of the 140 gr. .264". No doubt the .338 will have more energy on impact  at a bit more range, but with nearly double the recoil. And with non-expanding Match (FMJ) bullets, KE is not a prime consideration.

Don't mean to steal the Canucks thunder, but with all of the factors that can be calculated with the sophisticated computers available to spotters, that was clearly an advantage. Chris Kyle had a SEAL on over-watch protecting him and that was it. While the Canuck used a weapon with a number of recoil reducing features built into his MacMillan TAC 50 using a bullet almost as 3 x as heavy. To me, you can claim that the Canuck sniper now holds the record, but to me, it's a bit of apples to oranges. :icon_wink:

Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: Txhillbilly on January 05, 2018, 09:07:49 AM
I've shot out to a mile with both of my 6.5 CM's.
If you're wanting something better than your 50 BMG at long range forget about the 338 LM, and step up to the 416 Barrett or Cheytac. They will reach way out there.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: TXAZ on January 05, 2018, 09:58:26 AM
Thanks, my TP 6.5 Creedmoor is rock solid to 1000 with 5/5 hits at 1000 yards.  I watched a guy hit a 1 mile target with a 6.5CM on his first cold bore shot at a fun shoot this fall.

FYI, I went with the 6.5CM vs. Lapua.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: K-Texas on January 05, 2018, 01:15:03 PM
Edited my previous post because I didn't mention which .264" I was talking about which is the 6.5 x 284. The principle is still the same where you don't need heavier bullets at higher velocity.

If you guys don't handload, this might be the perfect time to start. There has been a development with the 6.5 CM starting with Lapua. When they finally brought out their 6.5 CM cases they used a small primer pocket. Starline has followed suit and for a few more $ you can buy their cases with large or small primer pockets now.

Lapua is responsible for the 6.5 x 47mm that's pretty sweet in its own right. A range buddy of mine has a couple of custom built rifles in that chambering.  I had some extra Norma 204 powder that I sold him to compare to the H4350 he had been using which is also the "must have" powder for 6.5 CM supposedly. Early on in his load development with N204 in the 6.5 x 47mm he was putting 3 rounds into a cloverleaf hole at 100 yards. Went a bit higher in charge weight and did very nearly the same with 5 shots. Needless to say, he likes the N204. Now he's ready to go to 200 yards and beyond.

I have to confess, that while an intriguing round I really didn't have much interest in owning a 6.5 CM. Now that Starline has small primer pocket cases, that may change. Lapua and others feel that small primers enhance accuracy over large rifle primers. They also produce lower pressure.  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: Txhillbilly on January 05, 2018, 07:47:22 PM
Edited my previous post because I didn't mention which .264" I was talking about which is the 6.5 x 284. The principle is still the same where you don't need heavier bullets at higher velocity.

If you guys don't handload, this might be the perfect time to start. There has been a development with the 6.5 CM starting with Lapua. When they finally brought out their 6.5 CM cases they used a small primer pocket. Starline has followed suit and for a few more $ you can buy their cases with large or small primer pockets now.

Lapua is responsible for the 6.5 x 47mm that's pretty sweet in its own right. A range buddy of mine has a couple of custom built rifles in that chambering.  I had some extra Norma 204 powder that I sold him to compare to the H4350 he had been using which is also the "must have" powder for 6.5 CM supposedly. Early on in his load development with N204 in the 6.5 x 47mm he was putting 3 rounds into a cloverleaf hole at 100 yards. Went a bit higher in charge weight and did very nearly the same with 5 shots. Needless to say, he likes the N204. Now he's ready to go to 200 yards and beyond.

I have to confess, that while an intriguing round I really didn't have much interest in owning a 6.5 CM. Now that Starline has small primer pocket cases, that may change. Lapua and others feel that small primers enhance accuracy over large rifle primers. They also produce lower pressure.  :icon_wink:

I shoot several 6.5 mm cartridges - 260 Remington / 260 AI / 6.5 Creedmoor / 6.5-06 / and a 6.5 x 6.8 wildcat AR-15.

Lapua - Starline - and Peterson all produce small rifle primer brass for the 6.5 Creedmoor. I love the Lapua brass! I haven't tried out the Starline,but I do have some of the Peterson brass.
I have always used Hornady and Nosler (Norma) brass since I started shooting the Creedmoor in 2010. Hornady cases are pretty weak in the case head area,and the primer pockets will get loose really quick once you start pushing it hard. The Nosler cases are real good,and will handle what you throw at them.

The Lapua small primer brass doesn't enhance accuracy nor lower the pressure,but it allows the loader to have cases that will hold up for more firings while maintaining a good tight primer pocket. If I use the same powder charge in Hornady brass,the case is thrown away after the first firing because it won't hold another primer in it.
The Peterson brass is even heavier than the Lapua - it averaged 8 grains heavier on my scale. It also shows high pressure signs with my known load,and was a lot slower over the chronograph. It will be a while before I do anymore testing with it,but I feel it will never have the velocities that I get with the Nosler & Lapua brass.
I haven't bought any of the Starline brass yet,but I will try it out in the future.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: K-Texas on January 06, 2018, 07:31:36 PM
Well, we know that large primer pockets stretching is a problematic issue. We also know that large primers generate more pressure than small primers. That's reason enough for me to believe that the guys who designed the 6.5 CM should have considered the small primer for the cartridge.

I don't expect to be the last word on the subject, so I recommend checking out what Starline says themselves.  :icon_wink:
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: Txhillbilly on January 07, 2018, 09:27:19 AM
Well, we know that large primer pockets stretching is a problematic issue. We also know that large primers generate more pressure than small primers. That's reason enough for me to believe that the guys who designed the 6.5 CM should have considered the small primer for the cartridge.

I don't expect to be the last word on the subject, so I recommend checking out what Starline says themselves.  :icon_wink:

Where do you get your info from? Primers don't generate any pressure, they only ignite the gun powder.
There are primers that are hotter burning than others, but that really doesn't have anything to do with case pressures.
Case design, Capacity, Shoulder Angle, and the Burn Rate of the powder used will decide the pressures that are produced from firing a cartridge.
Title: Re: Anyone got a .338 Lapua Magnum rifle? How's the kick?
Post by: K-Texas on January 07, 2018, 12:16:22 PM
Well, we know that large primer pockets stretching is a problematic issue. We also know that large primers generate more pressure than small primers. That's reason enough for me to believe that the guys who designed the 6.5 CM should have considered the small primer for the cartridge.

I don't expect to be the last word on the subject, so I recommend checking out what Starline says themselves.  :icon_wink:

Where do you get your info from? Primers don't generate any pressure, they only ignite the gun powder.
There are primers that are hotter burning than others, but that really doesn't have anything to do with case pressures.
Case design, Capacity, Shoulder Angle, and the Burn Rate of the powder used will decide the pressures that are produced from firing a cartridge.

From long experience and reloading manuals. The hotter a primer burns the higher the pressure of powder combustion. You might note in load manuals where they state, "If a magnum primer is used, do not exceed the start charge." This you can find out yourself when chronographing your loads. The small primer pockets used by Lapua and Starline are about more than primer pocket stretch, and as I said, I believe that Starline covers this at their site, or it being the opinion of shooters and their accommodation for them.  :icon_wink: