Recent Posts

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 10
1
Like that new “Proud bird with the golden tale” avatar Tango!
2

I believe the Lugerforum guys suggested WWB for mine as well, but it runs like ~$38+/box and it seemed over-powered for my pistol.
Sako and Fiocchi both seem to work better.

tho I won't be shooting my P06 the guys on Jan C Still Luger forum say that PPU is best (if ya can find it) followed by Fiocchi - I bought a box of Fiocchi - just to have it 

whenever it might be that I'll shoot my 1938 Mauser again (which won't be a lot..) I'm gonna stick with the WWB 9mm 115gr

As far as inexpensive range ammo, Fiocchi is some of the cleanest I've seen. While I don't shoot factory ammo, when we pick up our brass it's inevitable that we get cases left behind by others. I see just about everything made.

That is another issue for the Luger pistols, but you'd probably have to get to a round count of over 50 before the slightly dirty, and just plain dirty ammo gum up the works. A good shooting and clean load is what I would prefer.

Just a few days ago I saw a very good sale on the Federal Syntech ammo. IIRC, it was at Gun Deals.com. It's pretty new so a lot of folks may not have heard of or tried it yet. Definitely target ammo using poly-coated bullets, clean burning powder with indoor friendly and cleaner primers.  :icon_wink:
3
Ammunition / Re: Follow Up
« Last post by TXAZ on Today at 10:47:43 AM »

Unfortunately, judging from this website. handloading expertise seems to be lacking. I have been totally underwhelmed in any sense of the word, knowledge.
...

I mean geez, if this is the kindergarten ammuntion forum, I have far better things to do!  :icon_wink:

Under that criteria,  this is the kindergarten ammunition class, maybe even pre-school. I'd rather get out and shoot Boomer or Blaster than measure out one half, and I think most of the active participants would rather shoot than reload, and that is likely a common thought here.

There are a fair number of heavy-duty-get-down-in-the-micrograins-details reloading sites, but that's not really us.

(On the other hand, if you want to do some serious blasting or solving the worlds gun dilemmas, or discussing the latest political gun-related boners, fire away!)
4
Ammunition / Re: Follow Up
« Last post by K-Texas on Yesterday at 09:20:36 PM »
Yeah, if it's not for defense loads, flash is of little concern to me as well. I wish that Hornady would sell the Critical Duty bullets to handloaders.  :icon_wink:
Hornady has a winner of a product, 2 reasons I might expect they won't sell just the round (which is supposed to inflict maximum damage to an attacker).
First, they probably make more money selling the complete round.
Second, if a handloader under or over charges a round, uses in a life or death defensive action and it doesn't stop the threat, there may be some liability there if the round failed to properly expands or over expands.

I suspect that if Hornady had any such concerns it would more likely be in losing Critical Duty ammo sales. Some of the smaller "boutique" ammo-makers already use the XTP, so there would almost certainly be immediate competition against Hornady while using the Critical Duty bullets. Part of that could be prevented by offering handloaders bullet weights not used in their factory loads. I would want one at 147 grs. in 9mm.

With any specialized bullet, Hornady would likely post handload data at their site since their next load manual is likely to be years away since their last one is only a couple of years old.

I would tend to ASSume the former not the latter.  They just make more money using it themselves or possibly selling it to other "OEM" builders.

Unfortunately, judging from this website. handloading expertise seems to be lacking. I have been totally underwhelmed in any sense of the word, knowledge.

I'm not sure that I really understand the logic of your statements. Sales to handloaders would far exceed sales to Double-Tap, Underwoods or Buffalo Bore. And judging from one of your previous posts about not using your chronograph, I really don't understand what criteria you use in evaluating handgun defense loads. I'd be more than glad to have you enlighten me beyond how many powders you have that seem suitable for loading 9mm.

I was reviewing load data from a technical standpoint for several years before I made my first handload in .41 Magnum in 1986. When I started handloading 9mm, few bothered while you could buy cheap at $5/50. Starting out with .41 Magnum was for several reasons: availability, selection on top of it being expensive where I could find it. 9mm was quite a lot different because I wanted to handload better than factory ammo, while SAAMI spec for pressure then was 35,700 CUP. In terms of PSI, that's very close to today's limit for +P at 38,500 PSI, while many American ammo-makers are a good part of SAAMI, who got way over concerned with liability because of inferior pistols still floating around.

No single handgun rounds has had more safety issues in my lifetime than the .40 S&W that shares the same MAP as current 9 x 19mm @ 35,000 PSI. The .357 SIG is nothing more than the .40 S&W, bottlenecked to take 9mm bullets. Supposedly, the case in the web area was strengthened, so SAAMI allowed a MAP of 40,000 PST for the .357 SIG. After all, it is an American design. I do however, have professional friends within the firearms industry. One of them that I know to be absolutely solid told me a few years back, that in testing for case failure, it took over 100,000 PSI to blow the case-head of a 9mm cartridge.

If we're here to play games, I won't be around long. Been there, done that. But let me refresh your memory from my last post. The evidence is clearly shown in the articles I referenced at the Western website. Ballistically, my 147 gr. XTP load in 9mm @ 1154 is superior to the Hornady.45 ACP 230 gr. XTP +P load at 950 FPS. The uninformed would swear that I'm lying, but reality always seems to trump fantasy. In my experience in trying to educate others, I can tell you that almost none of them have a clue as to what sectional density is. Well, it's the ratio of mass to diameter. A 9mm bullet at 147 grs. has a higher sectional density than a 180 gr. .400" bullet or a 230 gr. bullet of .451" caliber. More often than not. sectional density is a prime factor in penetration.

Here's why I advocate the 147 gr. 9mm at higher velocity. Speaking with complete honesty, a 230 gr. XTP +P load rated 950 PS is one hell of a load. Check the guys at the range, mostly shooting the cheap stuff with a 230 gr. FMJ at 850 FPS and you'll find that many of them are at the top of their recoil tolerance. So let's get down to the nut-cuttin'. That 230 gr. XTP +P load at 950 FPS creates a power factor of 218.5. My 147 gr. 9mm XTP load at 1154 FPS is superior in terms of real ballistic science. It gives a PF of 169. Does that get through the fog? Which round could you fire the most rounds of in an equal time frame?

I mean geez, if this is the kindergarten ammuntion forum, I have far better things to do!  :icon_wink:
5
Off Topic Discussion (NON FIREARM RELATED) / Re: Where's the Movie Thread?
« Last post by GasGuzzler on Yesterday at 07:26:39 PM »
I'm likely right before (or barely too young on average) these movies are interesting.  Then again, as stated, movie watching seems like a time luxury I don't try to afford.
6
Ammunition / Re: Follow Up
« Last post by GasGuzzler on Yesterday at 07:25:01 PM »
Yeah, if it's not for defense loads, flash is of little concern to me as well. I wish that Hornady would sell the Critical Duty bullets to handloaders.  :icon_wink:
Hornady has a winner of a product, 2 reasons I might expect they won't sell just the round (which is supposed to inflict maximum damage to an attacker).
First, they probably make more money selling the complete round.
Second, if a handloader under or over charges a round, uses in a life or death defensive action and it doesn't stop the threat, there may be some liability there if the round failed to properly expands or over expands.

I suspect that if Hornady had any such concerns it would more likely be in losing Critical Duty ammo sales. Some of the smaller "boutique" ammo-makers already use the XTP, so there would almost certainly be immediate competition against Hornady while using the Critical Duty bullets. Part of that could be prevented by offering handloaders bullet weights not used in their factory loads. I would want one at 147 grs. in 9mm.

With any specialized bullet, Hornady would likely post handload data at their site since their next load manual is likely to be years away since their last one is only a couple of years old.

I would tend to ASSume the former not the latter.  They just make more money using it themselves or possibly selling it to other "OEM" builders.
7
Ammunition / Re: Follow Up
« Last post by K-Texas on Yesterday at 05:15:13 PM »
Yeah, if it's not for defense loads, flash is of little concern to me as well. I wish that Hornady would sell the Critical Duty bullets to handloaders.  :icon_wink:
Hornady has a winner of a product, 2 reasons I might expect they won't sell just the round (which is supposed to inflict maximum damage to an attacker).
First, they probably make more money selling the complete round.
Second, if a handloader under or over charges a round, uses in a life or death defensive action and it doesn't stop the threat, there may be some liability there if the round failed to properly expands or over expands.

I suspect that if Hornady had any such concerns it would more likely be in losing Critical Duty ammo sales. Some of the smaller "boutique" ammo-makers already use the XTP, so there would almost certainly be immediate competition against Hornady while using the Critical Duty bullets. Part of that could be prevented by offering handloaders bullet weights not used in their factory loads. I would want one at 147 grs. in 9mm.

With any specialized bullet, Hornady would likely post handload data at their site since their next load manual is likely to be years away since their last one is only a couple of years old.

I can not over-stress the importance of testing for penetration and expansion. And if you guys read the 2 articles by Charles Schwartz that preceded my last at http://blog.westernpowders.com/ With over 800 direct comparisons of firing into calibrated 10% ballistic ordnance gel, and firing the same load into water, there's a better than 95% chance that his calculation will give the exact depth of penetration in gel. Not only is gel kind of expensive, it's also inconvenient. In some cases I have even seen testers trying to fire multiple rounds into the same gel block. Not a very good idea, IMO. Charles furnished me with a copy of his software program that does the calculations. It also provides some very important statistics like P[I/H] which is probability of incapacitation per hit within a 30 second time frame. Being a computer program, it will take a lot of hits before 100% is achieved, and the number of rounds would probably require more time than 30 seconds. But, with a good defense load, regardless of who makes it, you should be over 99% with the 4th round. In my case, I'm a little more interested in the percentage after 3 shots when comparing different loads, but even then you should be over 98%. Another very vital parameter for me, and I apologize for writing the word instead of using the triangular symbol for Delta, but the value for Delta E15 is the amount of energy expended within the first 1 - 15 centimeters of the wound cavity. And in grams and ounces, there is also data for wound volume.

Any load I build and call a defense load gets tested thoroughly before I even mention it to others. While the Critical Duty bullet is a good one, it's not the only good one. And from the actual specs and tests by others, it's mighty hard to beat the Gold Dot at any given weight, excepting that as I mention in my article, the limit for the 147 gr. Gold Dot has been right at 1100 FPS in my tests while the 147 gr. XTP will stay together up to the 1154 FPS I have tested them at. In fact, if you read Charles's more recent of the 2 articles, he used Hornady factory loaded XTPs for comparison. Unfortunately, the 230 gr. XTP only comes in a +P version, so it's easy to understand how it outperforms the very sub-sonic 147 gr. XTP 9mm load. That is not the case with my 147 gr. XTP load in 9mm as it is super-sonic at 1154 and outperforms the 230 gr. +P XTP in .45 ACP

As far as the Gold Dot, it's not the only example of a major ammo company selling their premium defense bullet to handloaders, Remington has been doing it for years now. Unfortunately, the bonded upgrade version of the Golden Saber didn't fair so well and now they've introduced the "Black Belt" version that is somewhat exotic. As far as I know, only the .45 ACP version is being sold in factory ammo loads. It makes me wonder if they're having greater difficulty with the 9mm version, and as yet, I haven't heard a weight spec for the 9mm bullet. Simply loading a good JHP to a specific velocity and firing over a chrono only tells you what you can expect impact velocity and momentum to be. Excepting of course that Power Factor is simply bullet weight x velocity / 1000.

Let me close with this. If any of you guys want these specs for a handload you've developed, Charles explains the inexpensive apparatus that he uses. Because I've been using them so long I continue to use 1-gallon water jugs while Charles is aware of that. When we've ran the data for either method the results are close enough to be moot. So, if you want to use my method, line up 5 jugs with their handles to the rear and pointing in the same direction. Set the first jug to the same distance you chrono at, and between the skyscreens. If your bullet goes completely through 4 jugs, it's questionable. If it goes through all 5, I certainly wouldn't use it. I have put some JHPs to the test after having their manufacturer state that they can be used for defense only to find that they don't expand and over-penetrate. One specific example I can cite, and it's certainly not the only one, is the Nosler 124 gr. JHP in 9mm. It is an extremely accurate bullet in 9mm, but it doesn't expand. In reviews I've read at Midway, guys have stated that it needs .357 SIG velocity to make it expand. So, if you run the test, you can give me the average diameter from the greatest expanded petals of the recovered bullet to the smallest dia. between the petals, an average of 6 altogether. Then list its recovered weight and I'll be glad to run it through the program and list the most vital stats. Factory load or handload, doesn't matter. :icon_wink:
8
Ammunition / Re: Follow Up
« Last post by TXAZ on Yesterday at 03:14:10 PM »
Yeah, if it's not for defense loads, flash is of little concern to me as well. I wish that Hornady would sell the Critical Duty bullets to handloaders.  :icon_wink:
Hornady has a winner of a product, 2 reasons I might expect they won't sell just the round (which is supposed to inflict maximum damage to an attacker).
First, they probably make more money selling the complete round.
Second, if a handloader under or over charges a round, uses in a life or death defensive action and it doesn't stop the threat, there may be some liability there if the round failed to properly expands or over expands.
9
Ammunition / Re: Follow Up
« Last post by K-Texas on Yesterday at 01:33:05 PM »
Yeah, if it's not for defense loads, flash is of little concern to me as well. I wish that Hornady would sell the Critical Duty bullets to handloaders.  :icon_wink:
10
Off Topic Discussion (NON FIREARM RELATED) / Re: Where's the Movie Thread?
« Last post by TXAZ on Yesterday at 12:05:27 PM »
If you have access to Turner Classic Movies, they have 3 days of war movies on this weekend.  So Is AMC.
The original 1944 version of "Memphis Belle", 12 O'clock High, and many more.
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 ... 10