Author Topic: Run and gun night - 9/27  (Read 2592 times)

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Offline Adam

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Run and gun night - 9/27
« on: September 21, 2012, 01:32:42 PM »
USPSA style stages and rules, with IDPA scoring.

Sign ups here:
http://www.shilohidpa.com/MatchRegister/50

No concealment, no hiding behind cover, use race guns if you want, etc. There will NOT be a limit of 18 rounds on a stage necessarily, so make sure you have enough magazines.

Offline Ceejmo

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 02:40:09 PM »
This sounds like its gonna be fun. Are there major differences between USPSA and IDPA rules? I'm going to the site to sign up now. ..... O.K., I'm back. I signed up.
It's hard to free people from the chains of stupidity when they wear them like jewelry.
Freedom or free stuff, you only get one.

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 02:51:52 PM »
This sounds like its gonna be fun. Are there major differences between USPSA and IDPA rules? I'm going to the site to sign up now. ..... O.K., I'm back. I signed up.

Production division: similar to IDPA SSP (same equipment restrictions and holster/pouch placement, 10 rounds in magazines)
Limited division: similar to IDPA ESP (but can use certain race equipment like ghost holsters, full magazines and no optics)
Limited-10 division: same as Limited but 10 rounds in magazines
Single stack: similar to IDPA CDP or ESP (must be 1911 style single stack guns, no race gear)
Open: whatever you want
Revolver: heck if I know :)

There are scoring differences in USPSA when you use bigger bullets, but we're not using their scoring.

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 02:53:19 PM »
...and in all divisions, your belt doesn't have to go through your belt loops. That way you can use an inner/outer belt combo.

You can have as many magazines on you that you want, but depending on division they must be placed in certain places (Production, Single stack must be in IDPA-ish magazine pouches behind your hip bone).

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 02:54:26 PM »
No concealment, no cover. There are shooting boxes and fault lines. Reload whenever and however you want. We'll allow a few minutes before a stage to allow people to airgun if they want.

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 04:28:32 PM »
And I take it back - going to use USPSA scoring (for the most part) but with IDPA targets (since that's all we have).

Offline Ceejmo

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 04:37:41 PM »
And I take it back - going to use USPSA scoring (for the most part) but with IDPA targets (since that's all we have).

So 9mm would be minor power factor, right? Can/will there be more than 30 rounds per stage?
And who is Charlie Mike? :th_thicon_lol: :th_thicon_lol: :th_thicon_lol:
It's hard to free people from the chains of stupidity when they wear them like jewelry.
Freedom or free stuff, you only get one.

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
The longest stage I've tentatively selected is 20 rounds. The rest are 18 and under. Some of y'all won't even have to reload!

I think 32 is the max, but with the bays at Shiloh, that's a little difficult (would typically mean 16 targets or a bunch of strings).

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 05:07:15 PM »
Oh and yeah, 9mm factory loads is minor power factor.

Offline Adam

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Offline Ceejmo

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 10:30:15 PM »
 :th_thicon_idea: :th_thicon_idea: :th_thicon_idea: :th_thicon_idea:
It's hard to free people from the chains of stupidity when they wear them like jewelry.
Freedom or free stuff, you only get one.

Offline Ceejmo

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 01:42:08 PM »
Looks like there are still several spots left for tonight. Come on, get your butts off the computer and come shoot.
It's hard to free people from the chains of stupidity when they wear them like jewelry.
Freedom or free stuff, you only get one.

Offline Domineaux

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 01:56:00 PM »
I'm in so long as nothing blows up at work...and even then I may say screw it lol ;)
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Offline Ceejmo

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2012, 08:39:14 AM »

That was fun. I think I like the USPSA format. Mainly because I get to shoot more rounds. I just wish we had enough time to get the last stage in.

 :2guns: :2guns: :2guns: :2guns: :2guns:
It's hard to free people from the chains of stupidity when they wear them like jewelry.
Freedom or free stuff, you only get one.

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2012, 09:20:20 AM »

That was fun. I think I like the USPSA format. Mainly because I get to shoot more rounds. I just wish we had enough time to get the last stage in.

 :2guns: :2guns: :2guns: :2guns: :2guns:

I enjoyed it too. The only downside is longer stages = slower night. There's another club in the area that does indoor USPSA and they said they normally get 3 stages in a night. I see why now.

Offline Domineaux

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 09:31:29 AM »
Yeah it was fun but awful slow.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 10:43:11 AM »
We should have probably split into 2 squads, but there weren't many SOs there and the squads would be awkwardly small.

USPSA is a fun game of risk/reward and speed vs accuracy. In IDPA, accuracy really makes a difference. In USPSA, you can win with all C's against someone who gets all A's as long as you are fast enough. You can do that in IDPA as well, but it seems like 2 seconds makes a much larger difference in USPSA.

There is also a lot more stage planning involved. You didn't really see it last night, but there tends to be a lot of movement and the people who best plan their movement and reloads to eliminate unnecessary steps will tend to do better. IDPA is a bit more scripted.

Offline Adam

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 11:00:27 AM »
And here's why USPSA favors speed a bit more.

Say there are two shooters in a given division. There are 8 targets with 2 hits each

Shooter 1: 10 seconds, 16 A's (down 0 in IDPA)
Shooter 2: 8 seconds, 9 A's and 7 C's (down 7 in IDPA or 3.5 seconds penalty)

IDPA:
Shooter 1: 10 seconds total time (stage win)
Shooter 2: 11.5 seconds total time

* Shooter 1 wins by a healthy 1.5 seconds

USPSA:
Shooter 1: hit factor of 8 (80 points for the 16 A's, divided by time of 10 seconds)
Shooter 2: hit factor of 8.25 (66 points for the 9 A's and 7 C's, divided by time of 8 seconds) (stage win)

* Shooter 2 wins by a narrow margin

If Shooter 2 is shooting major, they get more points for their C shots.
Shooter 2 major: 9.125 (73 points for the 9 A's and 7 C's, divided by time of 8 seconds)

* Shooter 2 wins by a large margin



So not only does shooting faster help you win, but shooting a larger caliber gives you more points for imperfect shots.

To complicate it even more, points are awarded on a stage on a curve. The shooter with the highest hit factor gets 100% of the points available for the stage. So in the case of Shooter 2 shooting a .45, they are awarded 80 points (16 shots * 5 points).

Shooter 1 is awarded 87.67% of the points available on the stage. This is calculated by dividing their hit factor by the winning hit factor (8 / 9.125). This gives shooter 1 70.136 points for the stage.

Repeat this process for every stage and add up all the points. The shooter with the most points wins. Note that all of these calculations include only shooters in the *same* division. So the calculations only take shooters you compete with into account. To perform overall scoring, do the exact same process above but use all shooters. This is why you'll see a different number of awarded points based on whether you are looking at your division or the overall scoring - your scoring is always relative to the people you're being compared to.

I ignored penalties in the process above. Any penalties you receive is subtracted from your total points before the hit factor is calculated. It is possible to end up with 0 points after penalties are removed. You would be awarded 0 points for a stage in that case.

A procedural penalty is 10 points (frequently 10 points per shot while you were doing the infraction - like shooting outside the fault lines)
A no-shoot is 10 points
A miss is not only the lack of gaining points for the hit, but you also subtract 5 points. So compared to someone who had an A hit (+5) and you had a miss (-5), you lose 10 points.

So in short, the scoring is much more complicated. The only thing you can really do while shooting is calculate your hit factor and compare that to other shooters.

Offline Domineaux

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Re: Run and gun night - 9/27
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2012, 02:22:50 PM »
Dang...and folks were keeping track of these kinds of scores before spreadsheets were in wide use? lol
"One cannot restrict the defiant by constraining the compliant."

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