Author Topic: Shotgun training  (Read 518 times)

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Offline papabear

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Shotgun training
« on: December 28, 2017, 05:59:29 AM »
How many here train w/ a shotgun.
Looking for the "I do" AND the "I don'ts"
Also please state your age.

REASON:
I was reading manik's post on his AR short stroking and it reminded me of an experience I had years ago. I think it was when the DPS was building the huge burm in Georgetown. I was RSO at Angelina Rifle and Pistol club. We let DPS use the range 2 days for qualifying I think. May have been training exercise but don't remember all those details.
What I do remember was they were training/qualifying w/ both AR and shotguns. Still the old reliable Rem 870s.
Fell my lot to be on the shotgun range when they shot there. I was a little surprised during the instruction as to how much detail, repetition, strong emphasis, caution even, that the instructor was giving concerning short stroking the weapon.
I was very surprised when the shooting started. I could just about draw an age line concerning the malfunctions. The younger guys and a few ladies (seems like I remember 4) had trouble w/ them. Seems like the drill was load and shoot 3 rapid fire. breach load one and fire. Rack for clear and RO inspection. I was astounded how many of the younger generation struggled w/ the shotgun drill. All of the ladies struggled.
That has been probably 25 years. Any DPS here and do you still train or even carry a shotgun???
Carry 24-7 or Guess right.

Online TXAZ

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2017, 07:03:11 AM »
Former DPS non-LEO.
We (non-LEO) had shotguns when we went to high risk areas, and carried personal concealed handguns. 
I believe some / many officers have “an armory” in the vehicle, that is well concealed. 

Offline Tango

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2017, 07:43:16 AM »
.
no LEO (or ex) here but I do have a 20ga Mossberg "camper" that I use (in rotation with my AR and Wife's Beretta Storm) to stand nightstand duty - no "formal" training, just range shooting (and putting slugs thru my burn barrels as air vents)

Wife also has a 12ga semi auto TriStar Raptor ATAC which is "fun" to shoot



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Online Alte Schule

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2017, 08:43:41 AM »
For many recruits, be it LEO or military, their first exposure to firearms is during training. I know having my own rifles and shotgun and learning to shoot at an early age and prior to Army basic training helped me immensely. I remember when they gave us a full day of instruction on how to get a correct sight picture and thought who in the heck doesn't know how to do that? Come range day it was obvious. Probably 70%
That was 1970 and I bet it's as bad if not worse today. Rifles and shotguns in pickups was a way of life in the small (then) central Texas town I called home. Shooting cactus bulbs off a prickly pear at a hundred yards for a quarter was a game for us. Most young ones aren't exposed to that type of life anymore. Thieves, dopeheads and "progressive" thinking ruined that many years ago and I envy kids that can still do that type of thing.
This gun is liberty; hold for certain that the day when you no more have it, you will be returned to slavery.
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Offline papabear

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2017, 12:35:16 PM »
AGree completely sir.
Carry 24-7 or Guess right.

Online mike609

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2017, 07:12:46 AM »
I do. 50.

I have also had some basic self defense training in how to use one. They are trickier than most folks think. Particularly under stress when Folks make mistakes. That’s why we need to train.


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Offline papabear

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 09:16:09 AM »
I do. 50.

I have also had some basic self defense training in how to use one. They are trickier than most folks think. Particularly under stress when Folks make mistakes. That’s why we need to train.


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That is why we need to train. Yes it is. To many "learn to shoot" at most. Never really train and especially train for the "probable assaults". 
Carry 24-7 or Guess right.

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2018, 03:21:18 AM »
i have a personal fondness for shotguns as self defense firearms, especially in the home setting. IMO, they are a very versatile and adaptable platform for just about anyone and can be loaded with various types of ammo.

i like the shotgun since it doesn't require the same amount of precision in aiming that a pistol or rifle require. i believe in most instances there is less like a case for over-penetration of it's ammo if a miss happens. they also tend to do massive amounts of damage up close and personal, and if a miss occurs they tend to disperse their energy fairly rapidly.

for most people regardless of where they happen to live and how close to neighbors, or how many people in the home and their proximity during an attack, the shotgun for most is a good option for self defense.

i keep a few around loaded for defensive purposes. in reality, mine are more used for four legged or slithering critters than the two legged variety, but i feel confident they would perform just as needed if the situation did arise. even the wife is well versed in their usage, and can use them with authority!

Offline Shootshellz

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2018, 02:26:42 AM »
No slithering critters where I live (except for possums) but I thing shotgun training is great. Many believe that pointing a shotgun loaded with defensive ammo (read: non bird shot) in the general direction of a target is all that is required. Actually, it is easy to miss at close range with a shotgun shooting defensive ammo (I have seen it happen). Don't forget learning to shoot both from the shoulder and the hip (by placing the side of the buttstock against your hip and using footwork to guide you to the target). Find some low recoil defensive loads for training; your shoulder will thank you.

Offline AKM-47

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2018, 11:05:47 AM »
"I Don'ts"

In a home defense scenario, don't fire inside..... unless you have too or unless you have hearing protection

Been there done that






Offline Axxe55

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2018, 03:30:45 PM »
couple of points i will add. hearing protection? in life or death situation, i would sacrifice my hearing, in saving my own self, or loved ones from harm without hesitation.

shotguns do need to be aimed to do their job, regardless of what the movies or TV may show. the difference is they don't require the same amount of precision that a rifle or pistol require to stop a threat. at close range, even if you hit the attacker or intruder in the shoulder, arm or leg, instead of center mass, where you intended to hit them, it's still going to do massive amounts of damage. at 15 to 20 feet, OO buckshot has really tight pattern, even with an open choke, and will destroy whatever it hits.

if recoil is an issue, also a 20 ga. loaded with buckshot is very effective at close range for home defense.

Offline Shootshellz

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 10:10:19 PM »
IMHO 00 buckshot is not applicable to home defense purposes as it readily penetrates sheetrock at close range. #1 or #4 buckshot is the ticket inside a residence.

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 10:55:04 PM »
Quite a few YouTube videos showing anything bigger than birdshot overpenetrates.

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2018, 12:27:54 AM »
IMHO 00 buckshot is not applicable to home defense purposes as it readily penetrates sheetrock at close range. #1 or #4 buckshot is the ticket inside a residence.

this would be dependent upon an individual's situation. in town, inside an apartment complex, or in neighbor hood with neighboring houses close by, then yes possibly that might be true.

too many people try to make one answers to question very much like this, without looking at all of the factors involved. every person's situation is unique. what is right, and the best choice for one person given their unique circumstances, may be a poor option for someone else.

my situation and factors? i live in very rural part of the county, with my closest neighbor almost a 1/4 mile away, with woods surrounding three sides of my property. i share my home with my wife, and our dogs and cats. no children or other residents inside the house. so given my circumstances, my options for self defense firearms and ammo are pretty much unlimited, since i don't have to worry about issues of over-penetration or a stray round finding an innocent neighbor catching that stray bullet. extremely unlikely to ever happen.

another thing i have done for many years is my own informal testing of firearms and ammo. simply because i don't ever want to assume or think about what they are going to do. i want to know for a fact what they will do and how they will perform. while my testing is not scientific by any means, but it gives me a pretty good indication of what my ammo will do on various materials, as to things such as accuracy. penetration and spread. i also tend to practice or do that testing at distances that would be realistic to my home. i don't care how much spread the pattern of my buchshot is at 50 yards has. doesn't matter to me. i care about how much a pattern it has at about 25 feet or less, since this would the maximum possible distance within my house. those to me would be important info to know.

several years ago, on another forum, a young guy wanted to know what was the most accurate buckshot at 50 yards with his shotgun. my answer was, he might want to invest in retaining a lawyer if he was taking on perps at 50 yards since he was no longer in self defense situation at that distance! i have seen people ask what is the best round to use against a vehicle. again, stupid crap IMO. if you are engaging an attacker in vehicle, you had better be able to show that there are mitigating circumstances and good reason for doing so, because, doing so, you may have just become the aggressor, instead of the defender. laws regarding justified self defense, and the use of deadly force are pretty specific.

Online TXAZ

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2018, 06:09:04 AM »


...a young guy wanted to know what was the most accurate buckshot at 50 yards with his shotgun. my answer was, he might want to invest in retaining a lawyer if he was taking on perps at 50 yards ...

That’s further than most urban and suburban property lines. 
And if the bad guys have on heavy clothing it may be ineffective. 
Good advice Axxe, he needs a lawyer.

Online satx78247

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2018, 09:57:38 AM »
Axxe55,

In general, I agree with you EXCEPT when the criminal aggressors are armed with carbines/rifles or automatic weapons  & have fired upon us FIRST.
(Such attacks in urban areas, like the one where our little cottage is in San Antonio, are becoming more & more common.)

Fwiw, the loaded shotgun & pump-rifles at our apartment/cottage/farm are not loaded "for decoration". - In particular, my lady shoots her little Model 7615 with deadly accuracy.
Further, Sicilian women are no known for their mercy, when their home & hearth are threatened. = Criminals who would do well to cease their criminal activities & stay AWAY from our premises.= FACT.

yours, satx
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Offline Axxe55

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2018, 02:30:53 PM »
Axxe55,

In general, I agree with you EXCEPT when the criminal aggressors are armed with carbines/rifles or automatic weapons  & have fired upon us FIRST.
(Such attacks in urban areas, like the one where our little cottage is in San Antonio, are becoming more & more common.)

Fwiw, the loaded shotgun & pump-rifles at our apartment/cottage/farm are not loaded "for decoration". - In particular, my lady shoots her little Model 7615 with deadly accuracy.
Further, Sicilian women are no known for their mercy, when their home & hearth are threatened. = Criminals who would do well to cease their criminal activities & stay AWAY from our premises.= FACT.

yours, satx

i understand what you're saying, and i agree. under those conditions, a person could claim mitigating factors as reason.

and i'm a person that believes each situation would be unique. a person would have to do what they feel is in their best interests in defending themselves. but one thing i do believe is that if an intruder, or attacker i shot at and wounded or missed, leaves the premises and is fleeing, under the law, they would no longer be considered a threat, and by my pursuing them, then i am no longer a defender, but an aggressor. now, if in that situation, they were dragging my wife by the hair in their retreat to their vehicle, or whatever, oh hell yeah, i would in pursuit and shooting! game on. because if she died because of their actions, they would not be leaving alive, and wouldn't have to worry about their day in court.

Offline Shootshellz

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2018, 09:16:48 PM »
IMHO over-penetration should always be a concern no matter where one lives. Who knows if a stray pellet could strike some innocent person outside your home? This includes police officers who may have been dispatched to your home without your knowledge. There is no calling back a shotgun pellet that has left your barrel. No need for rounds that over-penetrate when so many other effective loads are available.

Offline Axxe55

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2018, 09:23:25 PM »
IMHO over-penetration should always be a concern no matter where one lives. Who knows if a stray pellet could strike some innocent person outside your home? This includes police officers who may have been dispatched to your home without your knowledge. There is no calling back a shotgun pellet that has left your barrel. No need for rounds that over-penetrate when so many other effective loads are available.

please provide us with how much energy a pellet of OO buckshot has once it's gone through the wall of house then strikes a person outside the house?

please explain how i would have no knowledge of LE being dispatched to my home?

Offline Shootshellz

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Re: Shotgun training
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2018, 10:15:02 PM »
If a 00 pellet strikes an eye it does not have to have much energy at all to do significant damage. And as a retired LEO I can assure you I went on many dispatched calls where a neighbor thought something suspicious was going on in the neighborhood and the homeowner had no clue the police were called until I knocked on their door. Go on a few 'ride alongs' with your local police department. You will be amazed what you learn.