Author Topic: Sig M17 to the troops in November  (Read 1136 times)

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Offline busykngt

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Sig M17 to the troops in November
« on: July 22, 2017, 02:27:50 PM »
Beginning with the 101st Airborne:

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2017/07/21/Army-plans-November-fielding-of-new-Sig-Sauer-pistol/1601500651048/
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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2017, 03:46:14 PM »
Been a  long  time in coming.

But after reading test results, I came to the conclusion it was the best choice.

The only other test pistol that could keep up to the Sig 320 in testing, was the CZ P09 MHS 2,, and , IMO,  CZ  only really entered for bragging rights as they pulled out of the trials  shortly after testing was completed. . I dont think CZ ever seriously considered filling the contract, as they already have more military and police contracts they can fill.

 I think the P 320 / aka  XM17  should serve our troops well.
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Offline Darkpriest667

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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2017, 06:25:10 PM »
Been a  long  time in coming.

But after reading test results, I came to the conclusion it was the best choice.

The only other test pistol that could keep up to the Sig 320 in testing, was the CZ P09 MHS 2,, and , IMO,  CZ  only really entered for bragging rights as they pulled out of the trials  shortly after testing was completed. . I dont think CZ ever seriously considered filling the contract, as they already have more military and police contracts they can fill.

 I think the P 320 / aka  XM17  should serve our troops well.


I tend to agree, as someone that carries a glock (43) and has shot the 17 and 19 a lot. I have a buddy who owns a 226 and a 320 and we shoot it a lot, it's a really good gun.  I also have another buddy in the same shooting group that owns a Shadow 2 and a 75B... those are magnificent weapons... I assume CZ didn't go after the contract because they already supply more police and military outfits than any other manufacturer. They have no need to go after the contract.


On the other side of the coin.. Losing this contract might hurt Beretta enough they sink...
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Offline busykngt

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Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2017, 07:48:21 PM »
Beretta sink?... perhaps your definition of sink is different than mine.  A continuous operating business enterprise under the same Beretta name since 1526!
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« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 10:12:27 PM by busykngt »
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Offline Darkpriest667

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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2017, 07:12:24 AM »
Beretta sink?... perhaps your definition of sink is different than mine.  A continuous operating business enterprise under the same Beretta name since 1526!
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They just lost their biggest contract and U.S. government contracts tend to be bloated and lucrative... That business doesn't get replaced overnight.  I suspect Beretta will see layoffs next year at the very least.  With the 92s hitting the streets eventually new gun sales for them might drastically drop. Will be hard times for them as a company.
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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2017, 07:19:00 AM »
They still have contracts with other militaries. Will it hurt? Yes. Will they get smaller? Maybe. But they won't go broke

Offline busykngt

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Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2017, 08:04:57 AM »
I'd say at almost 500 years old, and being the oldest continuously operating firearms manufacturer in the world, they have seen hard times before and have obviously (and successfully) navigated their way through rough waters before... without sinking.
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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 01:43:54 PM »
How many new model of pistols (BESIDES  92 variants ) has Beretta came out with in the past 35 years ? 

How many were hot sellers?

Seems to me they had all their pistol eggs in one basket.

Just some observations in my area,,,

I have one of the largest LGS's in my state 20 miles away, which are also a major beretta dealer.
Im in there window shopping and  talk to those guys quite a bit.
( INTERESTINGLY  enough, they just put in several wall size display cases featuring all SIG stuff. )
Also interesting, the largest LGS dropped Glock, I have no idea why.
The other large LGS also dropped glock after they demanded copies of ALL of his 4473's claiming it was for production research. They claimed it was a requirement to sell glocks. The owner told me he thought it was being done for ATF and He told them to piss off and now wont allow a glock in his store.

The 92's and 21's were Beretta's  big sellers in my area, and the 21's impossible to get.
Their polymere pistols are stacked high and deep in the used racks.
The Px4 sold like hotcakes for a couple months. 6 months later they were coming back. 
 
As for their long guns, they are just priced to high to sell around here.

Average Joe  is going to go buy a new mossberg shotgun, a new taurus pistol, and still have enough left over for a down payment on a new 4 wheeler.

Their CX4 had such a horrible trigger, along with the plastic  space gun look, they just didnt sell here.  :facepalm:  I loved the fact it took 92 mags, but  I wouldnt touch one. I think they should have designed it around an AR platform like JR Carbine did. ( which is what I bought. )
People here are just not embracing the whole  polymere or space gun look.


I wish Beretta  well as a company as I am a 92 fan,, but I fear they are in for some hard times .
And as someone already said, all those military M9's are going to be flooding the market.  .
And with them allowing taurus to make 1/2 price knock offs of their best sellers, ,, well,,  :thinker:

Just my 10 cents.
 



Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline HRM

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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2017, 06:45:53 PM »
Look at their world wide sporting gun sales, that's a very big market. The vast majority of models aren't even offered in the US.

Offline busykngt

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Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 10:14:56 PM »
A little more 'breaking news' on the MHS & Sig's M17:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/08/01/strike-industries-make-sig-p320-frames/

Interesting.... according to their website, Strike Industries is only a six year old, veteran-owned company out of Santa Ana, CA. 
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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2017, 10:18:53 PM »
Interesting.  Does this mean SIG is already farming their production out to contractors? 

I thought they were not allowed to do that in the military contract?
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".

Offline busykngt

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Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 10:36:51 PM »
I've now read that article for about the fourth time.  And while the article is very poorly written (maybe intentionally so),  I'm now thinking they're not a sub to Sig, but making these frame models on their own.  It's not clear to me from reading this article.  If they're NOT a sub to Sig, seems like they could be infringing on Sig's patent (or the government if they own the intellectual property rights).

And IF they are a subcontractor, Sig must have thrown a great deal of money their direction because start up tooling costs and production Rate Tooling for polymer injection molding for five different model frames wouldn't be cheap!  Not to mention curing ovens (if such things are needed), bulk chemical/polymer buys, staffing, production facility space, etc., etc.  It's one thing for a small, start-up company to buy a 3D printer and make a prototype and quite something else to start making parts to the tune of tens (or hundreds) of thousands.

Whether Sig is allowed to 'farm out' production of certain components would be determined by the actual contract.  The government/DoD actually tries to encourage some types of subcontracting to small and small disadvantaged businesses such as Veteran-owned, Women-owned, Native American businesses and research at Historically Black Colleges & Universities.  Large contracts such as MHS will have minimum amounts ($$) of subcontracted business set as a goal or requirement of the contract.
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 11:44:10 PM by busykngt »
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Re: Sig M17 to the troops in November
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 11:01:23 PM »
Just haffta wait and see I guess.   :thinker:
Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed often, and for the same reason.

There are two kinds of people in the world my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. YOU DIG.  " Blondie".

Well, any man that wouldnt cheat at cards for a poke, dont want one bad enough. " Gus".