Texas Gun Forum

GUNS & ACCESSORIES => Optics, Lights, Lasers, Holsters & Accessories => Topic started by: Tango on October 24, 2017, 01:49:03 PM

Title: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 24, 2017, 01:49:03 PM
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(read a couple of "historical" posts here but they didn't answer what I'm looking for, regards Laser Sights)

I'm new to ARs (it stands in rotation for "night stand duty") - have mounted a Red Dot sight on it

and my night stand handgun is a Glock 24, .40cal, w/21 round "happy stick" mag - it too has a Red Dot mounted

the more I am thinking about the practicality of Red Dots on both these weapons, for my intended purpose, the more I'm thinking "they're not practical" ..... and that Laser Sights, on both, just might be a better option

been looking at rail mounted sights and came across the Truglo Micro Tac Tactical Micro Laser ($109) and the Streamlight TLR4 ($209) and like the idea of the Laser Max Guide Rod but they're pretty expensive ($340 for a G24/34 and $261 for the G19 version)

another question - anyone with a Laser that swaps it between an AR and a handgun ?  I can't see why this couldn't be an option

I wouldn't be doing any target shooting for accuracy (would use iron sights, scopes, red dots for that)  - only for "sighting-in" after mounting on HD weapons

all answers appreciated - thanks   
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Shipwreck on October 24, 2017, 02:29:19 PM
If you swap a laser between a pistol and rifle, you will have to rezero it each and every-time. Just realize that.

I once had a Lasermax red laser with a pressure switch on a PS90 years ago. I had it zeroed for indoor ranges. It worked fine.

On a rifle - you will want it under or over the barrel - NOT on a side rail. Otherwise you make it much more complicated to use the laser when you are closer or further than your zeroed distance.

I did the laser thing on handguns back in the 1990s. Back then, they were much more expensive, and more complicated to mount on the gun. I don't care for them much on a handgun anymore. I tried a laser guiderod on a Beretta 92 over 10 years ago. It wasn't my thing anymore....

I practice 1 hand shooting a lot - when I am at the range. With night sights on a handgun, I am confident I can hit a target at inside distances easily. A laser will just show your hand shaking, which will be happening for sure, in a real situation. A laser dot on a rifle should move around less, since you have the rifle shouldered.
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 24, 2017, 03:34:55 PM
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thanks for the reply - guess I asked about the "swapping" between a pistol and an AR incorrectly - what I meant to ask was.....will a laser that fits on a Glock, like the Streamlight TLR4, for instance also "work" on an AR ? - most any weapon with a rail, right ?

I'd have 2 laser units - 1 for pistols and 1 for long guns and if I was to change from my AR to my Beretta Storm as my alongside-the-nightstand long gun (for instance) I'd be sure to zero the new install.....same with changing handguns, going from my G24 to a G19 - would zero after changing there too

this is one of the vids that got me thinkin' "Laser" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4ZCbGOkWw
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Shipwreck on October 24, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
Well, Glock has its own rail - it's not a true picatinny rail, I think. But, I do know that the TRL 1 and TRL 2 come with different keys. So, you could swap those between a pistol and a rifle easily, if the rifle has a picatinny rail. You could swap the inserts back and forth.

The TRL 2 comes with a laser and light
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Domineaux on October 24, 2017, 04:17:18 PM
A red dot is more practical than a laser for home defense in my opinion.
If you aren't sure about that, look at the fastest competitive shooters in sports like USPSA, they are running red dots because looking at the target and firing when the dot is overlaid is faster than lining up iron sites and damn sure faster than lining up a laser.
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: ArmedTexan on October 24, 2017, 05:28:24 PM
I prefer night sights on my home defense weapon. I tried a laser on my M&P 9, it often needed readjustment from time to time, once it even fall off at the range. I rather not have anything other than the safety to switch on/off or needing a battery in a defense situation.   
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Shipwreck on October 24, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
I prefer night sights on my home defense weapon. I tried a laser on my M&P 9, it often needed readjustment from time to time, once it even fall off at the range. I rather not have anything other than the safety to switch on/off or needing a battery in a defense situation.

Sho nuff  :thumbsup1:
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: TXAZ on October 24, 2017, 07:18:55 PM
Laser(at night)=“hey shoot me, I’m over here“
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 25, 2017, 05:48:33 AM
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thanks for all the replies - I believe I'll get one and give it a try on both the HD handgun and the HD long gun and then decide for myself

do have the Red Dots on both (and other guns) now but my thinking has been changed to "that's not the solution that I'm looking for for HD" and tho I've got night sights on a few handguns I'm not a fan of those either (just me, I know a bunch of ya'll like 'em)
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: JohnnyDollar on October 25, 2017, 07:04:09 AM
I may be the lone laser supporter.

I had a laser on mt AR Carbine along with an Eotech. The Eotech works better for me.
The laser ended up just being an extra doodad, so I took it off. 

OTOH, I have Lasergrips on my Beretta 92 and 96.
I chose them because they don't really add any weight or bulk to the pistols (which are already big enough).
They are easy to turn on and off, and using them is as simple as just holding the pistol.
I have had them on for years and never had to re-zero them.

At the range, I usually fire iron sights, but fire off one or two maga using the laser to check zero and function.

FYI, both pistols also have night sights which work well in dimly lit situations.
I was not a fan of night sights till I installed a set.

But they do not replace the Lasergrips.

ETA:
For those unfamiliar, Lasergrips are not "always on" there is a pressure switch built into the grip, so it's instant on/off.
another feature I like.

Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 25, 2017, 07:37:18 AM

I may be the lone laser supporter.

I may join you if what I'm planning on getting and it "works for me"  :th_thicon_idea:
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Domineaux on October 25, 2017, 08:46:52 AM
I actually like the idea of having a laser on board as an option, as special situations can greatly benefit from a laser, such as an awkward shot where you can see the laser is on target without exposing yourself.
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Army 1911 on October 25, 2017, 09:00:52 AM
Lasers on a pistol, to me, look like a house fly searching for something to eat.  The go all over.  I have no idea about on a rifle.
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 25, 2017, 10:10:01 AM
I actually like the idea of having a laser on board as an option, as special situations can greatly benefit from a laser, such as an awkward shot where you can see the laser is on target without exposing yourself.

that is exactly my thought - one's "face" doesn't have to be in line with and directly behind the bore axis in order to get a shot off

also, regards no lasers in Practical Shooting competition.....a laser would be "washed out" on bright days and most of the youtube events I've seen have been outside on bright days
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 25, 2017, 11:09:11 AM
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it's a "done deal" - I just ordered, from Optics Planet, the Streamlight TLR 2 Light/Laser combo

and (thru the 26th) O.P. has a coupon that gives an additional 11% off on purchases from them - so if anyone is in the market.....

I'll be sure to offer up reviews after it arrives and I get a chance to mess with it
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 26, 2017, 06:06:26 AM
Laser(at night)=“hey shoot me, I’m over here“

sorta like a flashlight (that some folks tout..)
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 26, 2017, 06:59:36 AM
Lasers on a pistol, to me, look like a house fly searching for something to eat.  The go all over.  I have no idea about on a rifle.

you don't really believe that you're not "going all over" when you're shooting with iron sights only, do ya ?  if you are steady as a rock please pass along your secret so we'll all be able to shoot like that - can't believe that one's ability to hold a handgun to a certain degree of "steady" is degraded by adding a RD or laser to the pistol (?)

I've got a lot of rounds down range using both iron sights and Red Dot sights - I've found that (particularly with RDs vs iron sights only because it's so obvious) a handgun tends to always move around (unless using a rest or a bipod or you have some sort of bionic shooting arm) - it's just not as obvious without "the dot" - therefore when I shoot using a RD I'll allow the "dot" to move across the intended POI and, as it does, that's when I pull the trigger - I suspect that I also do that when shooting with iron sights

I'm not expecting that using a laser will stop the "going all over" and therefore, as of right now, I'll see how it works for me when I use my "shooting with a RD system".  if I find a better way to utilize the laser I'll use that better way

my thoughts are that using a laser "should" be easier when mounted on a long gun (vs on a handgun), but we'll see

(a lot of questionable info put forth by someone (me) that's never shot with the aid of a laser  :facepalm:)
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: JohnnyDollar on October 26, 2017, 07:28:58 AM
Tango, I think you selected a well made product.  :thumbsup1:

I found that using a laser actually helped me improve my pistol shooting - with iron sights.
Playing with the laser and dry firing, I could see how the barrel was moving.

As for the light, especially on a rifle,
if you have ever gone outside at night to investigate a noise and walked around your home in the dark,
a light comes in handy.
on/off pressure switch is the key.

Lights are even more fun at night with a red lens when looking for varmints.
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Army 1911 on October 26, 2017, 08:29:34 AM
Lasers on a pistol, to me, look like a house fly searching for something to eat.  The go all over.  I have no idea about on a rifle.

you don't really believe that you're not "going all over" when you're shooting with iron sights only, do ya ?  if you are steady as a rock please pass along your secret so we'll all be able to shoot like that - can't believe that one's ability to hold a handgun to a certain degree of "steady" is degraded by adding a RD or laser to the pistol (?)

I've got a lot of rounds down range using both iron sights and Red Dot sights - I've found that (particularly with RDs vs iron sights only because it's so obvious) a handgun tends to always move around (unless using a rest or a bipod or you have some sort of bionic shooting arm) - it's just not as obvious without "the dot" - therefore when I shoot using a RD I'll allow the "dot" to move across the intended POI and, as it does, that's when I pull the trigger - I suspect that I also do that when shooting with iron sights

I'm not expecting that using a laser will stop the "going all over" and therefore, as of right now, I'll see how it works for me when I use my "shooting with a RD system".  if I find a better way to utilize the laser I'll use that better way

my thoughts are that using a laser "should" be easier when mounted on a long gun (vs on a handgun), but we'll see

(a lot of questionable info put forth by someone (me) that's never shot with the aid of a laser  :facepalm:)
 

You brought up some good points and yes my irons waver but since I am focused on the front sight,  not some red thing on the target,  it doesn't appear to go all over.

Now true red dots preform more like irons in the waver department.  I am focused more on the red dot in the sight than on the target down range.

What makes the lasers appear all over is the distance.  At arms length a one degree waver may only appear to be a little off the 10 ring.  But a 1 degree waver at the target will appear greater.
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 26, 2017, 09:13:47 AM

You brought up some good points and yes my irons waver but since I am focused on the front sight,  not some red thing on the target,  it doesn't appear to go all over.


actually whether I'm shooting with the aid of either iron sights or a RD my focus is on the target, not on the sight - whatever the sight is I'm trying to overlay it on my intended POI - perhaps others have different "views" (pun intended) but this works for me
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 28, 2017, 08:54:55 AM
Laser(at night)=“hey shoot me, I’m over here“

check out this video az guy, myth busted :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZdRNvWLirg
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on October 31, 2017, 03:10:32 PM
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dang..I'm like an impatient little kid at Christmas time -  I opted for the "free" shipping on the Laser and now I'm paying the price of being a cheapskate

I expected the thing to be here Monday, then they said Tuesday - then FedEx said they're giving the package to the usps (of all friggin' people !) for the final delivery

like I said, an impatient kid  :th_thicon_cry:  (thought I'd be shooting with it last Monday)
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on November 01, 2017, 04:11:04 PM
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well damn - got the Laser today but they sent a RED vs the GREEN that I ordered - have a call in to Optics Planet to see what the he!! is going on

I'll use it but I'm very disappointed   :frown:
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Shipwreck on November 01, 2017, 04:25:12 PM
Sorry they stuck it to you. Good luck getting it worked out
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on November 06, 2017, 01:46:33 PM
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decided to keep the "red" laser (and avoid the exchange hassle)

anyway, took the Glock 24 (.40cal) w/it's RMR Red Dot, 250 rounds of ammo, a bunch of targets and the recently installed Streamlight "red" Laser

wanted to co-witness the RDS and the Laser but just couldn't seem to get 'em together - strange that I got each one, individually, sighted in but they didn't work together (  ?  )

did come to the conclusion that, in my opinion, a Laser on a handgun is the best sight system for personal defense, at night, in one's house (better than iron sights, night sights, Red Dot or any of those with a light)

like I said.....my opinion

I sighted-in using a Bag, then I went to resting my elbows on the bag and looking above the pistol at the Laser Dot on the target and from there when with my regular 2 hand shooting stance but looking across the top of the pistol, still focused on the Dot

it's a hoot to shoot with - this Laser will be mounted on my AR and I'll probably remove the SPARC II that I have on the rifle now (and just use the Laser.....or.....use a scope and a laser ?) 

then will get another Laser for my nightstand handgun (G24 or G19)

lots of fun
Title: Re: ..Laser Sights..
Post by: Tango on November 07, 2017, 10:35:30 AM
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and now I've got my Wife interested in Lasers.....will let her shoot with the Streamlight I've got but will mount it on her G19 Glock

she carries a Sig 238 but the "laser availability" is limited for that pistol (Viridian & Crimson Trace, both external) - she also has a G42 Glock (.380 SS) and there's a LaserMax available for that pistol (the laser/guide rod)

so, if she's still into lasers after shooting with one at the range, I'll see if she still wants one..... :th_thicon_idea: